1959 vs 2204 A/B Test

[assquatch20]

So I recorded this comparison between my friend's 79ish 2204 and my 76 1959 with a newly installed PPIMV, plus new power tubes.



I have a question or two but I'll kinda explain the rigs first.

The 2204 is on a JCM800 cab with G12-65's in it. The 1959 is on a JCM800 cab with a mid 70's G12M-25 mic'd. For the A/B I'm using the exact same SM57 then I use two and play them both panned hard left and right. The A/B section of the clip is coming from a looper in front of the amps. 2204 first then the 1959 then both. I'm using a little analog delay in front as well and that's it. I didn't get levels perfect but I think it's good enough to demonstrate some major differences.

My question is why does the 2204 sound smoother, or less sizzly, biting, or even harsh, etc? They're both great. I think of the 1959 as early AC/DC and the 2204 closer to the Back in Black stuff maybe, though I can't say for sure what amps were used there. I prefer the 2204.

The problem is it isn't my amp. But the 1959 is. So I'm thinking of how to get closer to that with easily reversible mods. It sounded pretty much the same before the master volume but louder is all. Sounds the same on other cabs, even the opposite 4x12. I'm not sure that it's a bright cap thing or even a gain thing. I've considered getting the Mr. Scary Hot Mod but I'm not sure it'll change this beyond adding gain. Gonna try some different preamp tubes and go from there but any advice is appreciated.

 

[Crikey]

Both sound great to me

 

[Gutch220]

the 50w versus the 100w I'm sure makes a difference.

 

[svinyard]

I’m not an expert but love that sound. High Voltage ACDC is legendary tone. Back in Black is perhaps a better composed album but the tone is different, warmer, darker. I love that damn high octane sizzle tho! And the snarl growl too. Does turning down the guitar volume rein it in a bit? Speakers make a big difference. Your 100w is pushing those 25w speakers a lot harder than a 50w pushing the 65’s. Hard to do an A/B with different speaker setups. Both are incredible tho.

 

[79 2203]

My stock 79 2203’s overdrive holds together better than my stock 71 1987‘s more raw/wild overdrive so it can seem slightly smoother or more modern.
50 watts is gonna compress more than 100 watts.
12-65’s I find smoother, even polite compared to even Pulsonic Greenbacks.
BIB is definitively a smoother tone than previous albums and many experts think ACDC used 12-65’s on that recording.

All that said, there’s too many variables going on here. Bright caps, tubes etc.

 

[10kDA]

Speakers make a big difference. Your 100w is pushing those 25w speakers a lot harder than a 50w pushing the 65’s. Hard to do an A/B with different speaker setups. Both are incredible tho.

I would back off the gain a bit and the treble a bit more on the 1959 and try it again, then A/B the cabs as well. It may be just the cabs making the biggest difference.

 

[marshallmellowed]

Cab plays a big part, 2 different cabs, 2 different sounds...

 

[marshallmellowed]

Master volume added to a non-master Marshall + upper left input = thin & trebley. Crank the 1959, use both inputs (normal channel adds the depth) and do another comparison (re-amped or attenuated)...

 

[marshallmellowed]

Non-master Marshalls sound best cranked, they weren't designed to be master volume amps. If a 2204 sound is the target, I'd put the 1959 back to stock and get a 2203 or 2204. Just my opinion, of course.

 

[Resident 217]

I found all potentially useful good sounds in the video.

 

[Matthews Guitars]

I absolutely hear a huge difference that I attribute mostly to the very different speakers in the cabinets.

Try both amps in the same cabinet and I think they're much closer tonally than you currently think they are.

I don't always agree with Glenn Fricker but he's right that speakers are a dominant factor in overall tone, and this
becomes more true as the overdrive level increases.

 

[Derrick111]

Both sound good, but if comparing the amps, you should have taken the different cabs/speakers out of the equasion. Hell, for that matter, you would not want to move the mic even a millimeter between takes because that can drastically effect tone. I hear the difference in the speakers a lot in this comparison. You should do the this comparison again, but choose one cab and don't move the mic between takes at all. Then you can do it again with the other cab if you really want to see how the cabs effect things. The 65s are often smoother than 70s 25w Celestions. More so the later in the 70s they are.

 

[Mats A]

If you really want to compare amps you must use the same cab. Different type speakers makes the amp sound very different. I had a 1959 Plexi Reissue that i had a PPIMV installed on and i didn’t like it. The tone got thin and harsh. You get the distortion but not the tone.

 

[boola1]

Totally agree. IMHO, a PPIMV neuters an amp that gets a lot of it's magic and distortion from distorting the EL34s.

65w Celestions sound very different to 25s.

 

[shooto]

I LOVE my ‘78 JMP 2204…but I’d love to be able to get it to sound like the 1959…spongier..looser…

 

[Pepislang]

Basically, no two Marshals (from the old production) sound the same, even if they are the same model and year. If you want a tighter 1959 sound, you could try using a booster or some classics like a TS or SD1.
On my 1987 (1975), I really enjoy playing with a Suhr Kokoboost, Jackson Audio Prism, or Xotic EP booster. And here’s what my amp sounds like with a Friedman Buxom boost and SD1

 

[science]

So I recorded this comparison between my friend's 79ish 2204 and my 76 1959 with a newly installed PPIMV, plus new power tubes.



I have a question or two but I'll kinda explain the rigs first.

The 2204 is on a JCM800 cab with G12-65's in it. The 1959 is on a JCM800 cab with a mid 70's G12M-25 mic'd. For the A/B I'm using the exact same SM57 then I use two and play them both panned hard left and right. The A/B section of the clip is coming from a looper in front of the amps. 2204 first then the 1959 then both. I'm using a little analog delay in front as well and that's it. I didn't get levels perfect but I think it's good enough to demonstrate some major differences.

My question is why does the 2204 sound smoother, or less sizzly, biting, or even harsh, etc? They're both great. I think of the 1959 as early AC/DC and the 2204 closer to the Back in Black stuff maybe, though I can't say for sure what amps were used there. I prefer the 2204.

The problem is it isn't my amp. But the 1959 is. So I'm thinking of how to get closer to that with easily reversible mods. It sounded pretty much the same before the master volume but louder is all. Sounds the same on other cabs, even the opposite 4x12. I'm not sure that it's a bright cap thing or even a gain thing. I've considered getting the Mr. Scary Hot Mod but I'm not sure it'll change this beyond adding gain. Gonna try some different preamp tubes and go from there but any advice is appreciated.

They are as different as 2 and 3 of a perfect pair. 1959 has 2 gain stages cascaded- one full one bright- the 2203/4 had a 3rd stage between. Due to their layouts in these the 2nd stage gain was Very low and it tended to pinch the stage off- this is the smoothing you hear in the 2203/4. The 2 raging stages in the 1959 kick it to the eq stack and its to the pi harder.

 

[Fretts]

My question is why does the 2204 sound smoother, or less sizzly, biting, or even harsh, etc? They're both great. I think of the 1959 as early AC/DC and the 2204 closer to the Back in Black stuff maybe, though I can't say for sure what amps were used there. I prefer the 2204.

Are the volume controls set about the same? Those amps have a strong treble bleed on the volume control that has less effect as you turn up. Also, to really compare, you really need to have only one variable in the test -- both heads played through the same cab, same mic, same distance etc etc. Since you have (or had) a looper, you could do that and then A-B them in a simple audio app like Audacity or similar. I have done exactly that recently with other gear and the results did surprise me.
Also, tubes all come out a little bit different since they really are hand-made. You could have a difference there. If you really want to drill down and get some solid answers, you'd need to use the same set of tubes in each amp.
It's a lot of work, but if you are serious about finding out, that's how hard it is.

 

[TheOtherEric]

When you say the 2204 with G12-65 is smoother with less sizzle than the 1959 with Greenbacks, you’re perfectly describing the difference between those speakers. It’s well known the same amp playing through G12-65 will have less fizz on top, less sizzle, than Greenbacks. I have roughly the same amps and cabs as you and see this regularly! I knew immediately your second amp was the Greenbacks; no mistaking that!

tl;dr - you just tested the speakers, not the amps.

 

[67mike]

Really hard to beat a good 2204.