2x12 Cream Back plus Swamp Thang? Or DSL40CR extension cab?

[TheKman76]

Good day folks,

I very recently purchased a new DSL40CR and immediately replaced the V-type with a G12H cream back. After modifying the Ultra channel for some extra brightness I'm very much enjoying this amp.

Having never owned a valve amp before and lusting after a Marshall 4x12 cab since my teens I'm now no longer capable of carting one around. Truth be told I couldn't justify the space either. Anyway, I'd like to build a 2x12 closed cabinet instead and convert the combo to a head.

The Swamp Thang currently lives in a DIY open back cab I built specifically to do the Fender clean thing with a SS/modeller setup. After playing with the DSL I really don't need it anymore and the Swamp Thang needs a new home.

Given the two speakers really occupy different sonic spaces, does anyone think putting the two inside a single 2x12 closed cab will work? They're both 8 Ohms and the DSL can do 4 or 16, so the choices are open to series or parallel.

Having never driven mis-matched speakers in one cab I'm concerned there might be negative effects on resonance both acoustically and electrically. Or perhaps I'm just over thinking it.

Thoughts?

EDIT: Maybe opinions on the Swamp Thang in a dedicated extension cab instead?

 

[Maxbrothman]

Greenback/Creamback on top for the ears and V30 below for the thump is a common setup in 2x12s and 4x12s.

 

[TheKman76]

I assume these would normally be wired parallel in a shared chamber?

 

[Clifdawg]

Never used a Swamp Thang, but I do know they're very popular for both clean and high-gain applications. A lot of low-end thump. I'd build a vertical cab and put the Swamp Thang on the bottom and the Creamback on top.

Alternatively, if you wanted to stick with Eminence, Swamp Thang / Texas Heat is a popular combination, particularly in 2x12s or in an X-pattern in a 4x12.

Whatever you choose to do, I can't imagine this cab sounding anything less than flippin' amazing.

 

[mark123]

The sensitivity difference will most likely make the swamp thang be heard and the creamback be buried.

The Creamback and Vintage 30 will be much better matched concerning sensitivity.

 

[TheKman76]

I can't imagine this cab sounding anything less than flippin' amazing.

Really? That's more positive than I was expecting, frankly.

The sensitivity difference will most likely make the swamp thang be heard and the creamback be buried.

I've played them both together already - cream back in the DSL combo, Swamp Thang in it's own open back cab - and I can assure you the G12H is the dominant speaker. Top end of the Eminence comes through but mids of the Celestion are very prominent.

The hope is that in a closed back cab I can get the Eminence to show off it's low end, which I've never experienced in the small open back cab it lives in now. I was thinking horizontal but everyone seems to think vertical is the way to go, cream back on top.

 

[Clifdawg]

I just looked - didn't realize that the sensitivity difference between the two speakers was 5 dB (97dB for the Creamback, 102dB for the Swamp Thang). Interesting that you noted that the Creamback sounded more dominant - I'm assuming you put the Creamback-loaded DSL on top of the Swamp Thang-loaded cab? Part of it is probably positioning. Before you commit to this, I would see about closing off the open-back cab temporarily and then trying them together. The extra low-end afforded by a closed-back cab might create a situation where, together, the Swamp Thang does, in fact, overpower the Creamback.

 

[TheKman76]

The G12H is listed as 100dB. Looking at the frequency response and sensitivity definitely doesn't tell the whole story.
Currently they're side-by-side on the floor, so I don't think position is a factor.

The little open back cab is less that 1cf in volume, was a successful experiment in compact cab design, though it is fairly heavy. Closing the back probably isn't going to be a good representation of the bass response of this speaker. I agree with your idea, but in practice I need to build a new cab to test it.

According to my math the little cab is attenuating below about 150-250 Hz which is exactly what I'd like to boost in the Marshall. The reason I'm looking for advise is because subjective experience is often very different from the math.

Does this constitute a yes vote, @Clifdawg ?

 

[Clifdawg]

I say go for it!!

 

[TheKman76]

Hadn't occurred to me until now, but maybe a largish extension cab for the Swamp Thang is a better option?

 

[Maxbrothman]

I have a Swamp Thang. It is 150W rated speaker designed for 7 or 8-string baritone Djent and thumps. I have it in a 1x12 now.

 

[TheKman76]

Closed back? How big?

 

[TheKman76]

Before you commit to this, I would see about closing off the open-back cab temporarily and then trying them together.

Your suggestion was a good one, so I did just that.
As it happens this balances the two quite well and the ST comes forward nicely. The CB still feels like it's doing at least half the work in the lower end as the ST cab is very small.

I'm really torn now about going 2x12 or just adding an extension for the ST. For messing about with mates the combo is simple to cart around, but for sonic satisfaction I really want to bite the bullet and try for a big-ish 2x12.

I built a Katana MkII head into a combo for my daughter last year which had the CB in it originally. Now the original DSL V-type is in the Katana and this is a much better match as the Katana has mids to burn already. The Katana combo is also a closed back 2.5cf cab, so low end is plenty big and the V-type adds some brightness to is also. Maybe this should be the 'messing around' amp?

Go on, convince me to build a big block 2x12!

 

[JohnH]

I'd suggest to keep the amp as a combo and do a cab under it. My old DSL401 which is also a 40W open-back 1x12 has a V30 in the combo, and one in a closed back cab under. The mix of open and closed is great, and sometimes I just take the combo. It's all on the same floor foot-print as the combo.

Another factor, or opportunity: DSL40cr's have a full set of 5 output jacks, 16, 2x8 and 2x4. So with these, you can combine speakers or cabs of different ohms, and still get a matching balance.

 

[Sir Don]

I dunno man, I put an Eminence Tonker in my DSL40CR and in my MX112.

I run them together which gives an enormous sound.

 

[TheKman76]

Been trawling YouTube the last few days and I'm realising that the size of the cabinet seems to be the thing. I listened to one cab I would have believed was a 4x12, but was a big 2x12. 600mm x 700mm x 350mm angled top cab. *Big*. There's definitely some sort of resonance in bigger cabs that attracts me.

@Sir Don The Tonker looks like it would be a good fit too. Definitely sticking with the two speakers I have, they're both great in different ways. The more I listen the more I think it's the cabinet size that matters more.

I don't know either.