A world without Metallica

[V-man]

An offshoot idea of mine contemplating the “more important band:” Black Sabbath or Led Zeppelin (a whole other topic), I considered the existence of Metallica and posed the idea of Heavy Metal’s existence without a Metallica. My thoughts below. Feel free to discuss.



The Hetfield-Ulrich quartet of being the most successful (former) heavy metal band to date. Without question, 5-6 of the band’s entire roster have been some of the most praised and influential players of the genre. Undoubtedly successive bands have cited them as in influence…

BUT…

How important was the band in reality regarding the inevitable(?) advance of heavy metal across the landscape of the 1980s and beyond. My position is that they (like LZ to Rock) despite their undeniable presence and influence have done much to help shape the early part of the genre, but the band itself was not required in the least for the advancement of Heavy Metal following the NWOBHM.

1. NWOBHM paved an inevitable path to US/EU Heavy Metal advancement.

Judas Priest in particular along with Iron Maiden, Samson, Diamond Head, Venom and at least 12 other bands were gaining prominence among “hard rock” listeners. European players since Sabbath were getting heavier and faster than golden age ‘70s rock, Given the trend this point alone calls into question the necessity of the Hetfield-Ulrich quartet notwithstanding what those musicians brought to the table.

2. US virtuosos paralleled NWOBHM/blazed the genre before Metallica appeared

EVH was already a sensation. RR’s catalog with Ozzy was effectively completed before they recorded. George Lynch and a host of other gunslingers provided a sufficient landscape for any would-be heavy/fast player to explore and aspire to learning.

3. EU metal developed in parallel and its exposure was inevitable.

As UFO/Scorpions was an influence to Metallica, what followed was destined to reach the US notwithstanding Metallica’s existence. Mercyful Fate, Hellhammer/Celtic Frost, Kreator, and Destruction among others created the post-NWOBHM metal movement independent of US contribution.

4. Thrash (even Bay Area) was waiting in the wings independent of Metallica

East Coast Hardcore (i.e. Anthrax) was developing in parallel, but the CA family included players who were already forming up into the contemporaries of Metallica (including Armored Saint, Testament [Legacy] and Exodus among others). On the point of Exodus, they were THE live band to see/beat In the early days, destined to form the Apex slot of the bay area bands. However, Metallica stole Hammett out from under them and complications with their album made Exodus latecomers, behind 3 of the Big Four. That Hammett already had a career and Mustaine showed his ability to raise two bands to prominence (including Metallica) along with Cliff Burton’s talent ensured that most of their roster were destined to make their contribution regardless.

 

[SkyMonkey]

Like Jenga.
Take one brick out and the tower (usually) stays up.

But, even though I can rarely bring myself to listen to Metallica any more, I have to say, it was them (and maybe Slayer) that I was listening to when I made the switch from Indie/Goth/Death rock to Thrash Metal.
Not Scorpions, UFO, Diamond Head, etc. None of them! Not even Led Zep to a meaningful degree.
So without Metallica my world would have been quite different.
I would never have picked up a guitar for a start.

 

[SonVolt]

There's a lot to unpack there.

Personally I think Hetfield was instrumental in shaping what is now modern metal. There wasn't as much crossover appeal for the NWOBHM bands (and crossover appeal is key here), especially for late Gen X'ers (78-82) who got bit by the Metallica bug early on (enough to leave a mark) before switching over completely to Grunge when Kurt came on the scene, and then going on to form Heavy Metal bands in the late '90s as grunge was fading. If Metallica hadn't existed and we were only left with Judas Priest or Iron Maiden I personally think the whole genre would have limped along in relative obscurity.

To me Hetfield is a pillar with far more load bearing than anyone else since Sabbath. Remove that structural integrity, I don't see the house standing...

 

[Whizzercone]

If someone had told you in 1984 that Metallica would be the biggest band in the world in 2024, you would have told them they were insane.

 

[V-man]

Like Jenga.
Take one brick out and the tower (usually) stays up.

But, even though I can rarely bring myself to listen to Metallica any more, I have to say, it was them (and maybe Slayer) that I was listening to when I made the switch from Indie/Goth/Death rock to Thrash Metal.
Not Scorpions, UFO, Diamond Head, etc. None of them! Not even Led Zep to a meaningful degree.
So without Metallica my world would have been quite different.
I would never have picked up a guitar for a start.

My personal experience parallels yours, though their lasting legacy to me now was the exposure to The Misfits and NWOBHM bands.

There's a lot to unpack there.

Personally I think Hetfield was instrumental in shaping what is now modern metal. There wasn't as much crossover appeal for the NWOBHM bands, especially for late Gen X'ers (78-82) who got bit by the Metallica bug early on (enough to leave a mark) before switching over completely to Grunge when Kurt came on the scene, and then going on to form Heavy Metal bands in the late '90s as grunge was fading.

Well, there is no denying your point/their influence. However that Post-NWOBHM hardcore era was hardly a flash in the pan notwithstanding Metallica’s indelible mark. There was an absurdly deep roster from Ozzy/Dio-Sabbath to Pantera (the,”real” influence of post-thrash Metal) that positively dwarfed grunge and (with hard rock bands) rivaled the entirety of alternative bands.

If Metallica hadn't existed and we were only left with Judas Priest or Iron Maiden I personally think the whole genre would have limped along in relative obscurity.

Which ignores the point that Europe already had their scene we would have accessed as surely as we did the Scorpions (and the metal acts alongside US acts)… and which also ignores the point that we already had these bands in the US prior to or in tandem with Metallica. Slayer may not have been Mustaine-taught and Pantera may not have been the same, but Exodus, Anthrax, Ozzy, etc were already certainties.

This is not a binary of M+ all or JP and IM only. Everything ‘85-forward owes something to them but everything prior was developing in parallel and (relatively) independently.

To me Hetfield is a pillar with far more load bearing than anyone else since Sabbath. Remove that structural integrity, I don't see the house standing...

Three topics worth of can of worms, but Mustaine > Hetfield easily over contribution and he would have been in play regardless. Hetfield never stood on his own until AJFA relying on the talent, writing and direction of Mustaine and Burton alongside his own. Apex rhythm player and strong songwriter, but (Lars excepted) everybody of note can and had gotten along successfully without JH. I have seen Metallica at their apex a handful of times and my biggest brag by far was seeing Clash of The Titans (Anthrax, Friedman-era Megadeth, Slayer and AiC)

 

[Matthews Guitars]

My opinion is that Metallica stands as its own tower on the metal landscape. It is not really very influential on the rest of the towers on that landscape, it's just a really big tower by itself.

I don't hear very many bands that to my ear are obviously Metallica influenced. Just as I don't really hear many bands that ar KISS influenced, yet nobody can deny what a big presence KISS has been in rock and roll.

Black Sabbath, The Rolling Stones, The Beatles, Clapton, yes, they heavily influenced many players and bands. No doubt about it. But Metallica is more of a phenomenon for ITSELF, and not so much for being an influence on other bands. At least not directly.

In my opinion.

 

[Frodebro]

If someone had told you in 1984 that Metallica would be the biggest band in the world in 2024, you would have told them they were insane.

Absolutely. I was a hardcore Priest fan when Metallica first hit the scene, and I wasn’t into their stuff at all.

 

[Whizzercone]

My opinion is that Metallica stands as its own tower on the metal landscape. It is not really very influential on the rest of the towers on that landscape, it's just a really big tower by itself.

I don't hear very many bands that to my ear are obviously Metallica influenced. Just as I don't really hear many bands that ar KISS influenced, yet nobody can deny what a big presence KISS has been in rock and roll.

Black Sabbath, The Rolling Stones, The Beatles, Clapton, yes, they heavily influenced many players and bands. No doubt about it. But Metallica is more of a phenomenon for ITSELF, and not so much for being an influence on other bands. At least not directly.

In my opinion.

Metallica, like AC/DC transcends boundaries like few bands have. I guess one could say GNR as well, but GNR is just Aerosmith without the history.

 

[Dogs of Doom]

If someone had told you in 1984 that Metallica would be the biggest band in the world in 2024, you would have told them they were insane.

yep...

around here, those type of bands were a dime-a-dozen. One garage on every block had one... (in LA)

They were just like any other of the thousands of garage speed metal bands of the day...

but... they made it, & good for them

I personally think the black album is their best & their peak. Everything after that seems like they were trying to rehash black. Unloaded, reLoaded, were all just the same song to me... Unforgiven, Unforgiven 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, etc....

They have some decent stuff... but...

Was their influence positive, or negative?

What happened to the metal that they influenced?

seems like metal has sucked in the direction that it took. Was it because of their influence? or was it in revolt to them?

or... did society just get too pussified to do metal?

 

[Frodebro]

yep...

around here, those type of bands were a dime-a-dozen. One garage on every block had one... (in LA)

They were just like any other of the thousands of garage speed metal bands of the day...

but... they made it, & good for them

I personally think the black album is their best & their peak. Everything after that seems like they were trying to rehash black. Unloaded, reLoaded, were all just the same song to me... Unforgiven, Unforgiven 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, etc....

They have some decent stuff... but...

Was their influence positive, or negative?

What happened to the metal that they influenced?

seems like metal has sucked in the direction that it took. Was it because of their influence? or was it in revolt to them?

or... did society just get too pussified to do metal?

The black album is what brought them crossover success and pushed them into the stratosphere. Suddenly the “cool kids” were listening to Metallica, and that really pissed off the hardcore fans (who were arguably NOT considered the “cool kids”).

 

[Dogs of Doom]

Metallica, like AC/DC transcends boundaries like few bands have. I guess one could say GNR as well, but GNR is just Aerosmith without the history.

nah... Gn'R came at the heels of hair metal... at the end, instead of everything being so poppy, it headed towards sleaze rock... that's where Gn'R came in... They were sleaze rock, but, played it smart.

While other bands playing around at the time were bragging about not having any radio friendly songs & not compromising, Gn'R were able to clean up their tracks for radio & were willing to do so... If your music can not be played on public airwaves, you are of no commercial use to a record company/label... They want to make money off of you & need to be able to promote you.

If all your music has to be bleeped out, that is of zero value to the label...

Gn'R were smart...

 

[Dogs of Doom]

The black album is what brought them crossover success and pushed them into the stratosphere. Suddenly the “cool kids” were listening to Metallica, and that really pissed off the hardcore fans (who were arguably NOT considered the “cool kids”).

they finally had a real producer (Bob Rock)...

 

[Frodebro]

nah... Gn'R came at the heels of hair metal... at the end, instead of everything being so poppy, it headed towards sleaze rock... that's where Gn'R came in... They were sleaze rock, but, played it smart.

While other bands playing around at the time were bragging about not having any radio friendly songs & not compromising, Gn'R were able to clean up their tracks for radio & were willing to do so... If your music can not be played on public airwaves, you are of no commercial use to a record company/label... They want to make money off of you & need to be able to promote you.

If all your music has to be bleeped out, that is of zero value to the label...

Gn'R were smart...

Never heard One In A Million on the radio, that’s for sure…

 

[StingRay85]

I love Metallica. As a teenager, more than 20 years ago, it was a gateway for me to older stuff like Black Sabbath.

That's all I wanted to say.

 

[DirtySteve]

The reason for their success? Well, it's gotta be the cool name, duh!


I always thought of Metallica as a kind of punk metal garage band up until the Black album changed that, which is also when I lost interest.

 

[SonVolt]

Black Sabbath, The Rolling Stones, The Beatles, Clapton, yes, they heavily influenced many players and bands. No doubt about it. But Metallica is more of a phenomenon for ITSELF, and not so much for being an influence on other bands. At least not directly.

Hmmmm, I'm not so sure about that. Maybe it's confirmation bias, but it seems like every metal act I dig into lists Hetfield as one of the top 3 influences.

 

[Frodebro]

The reason for their success? Well, it's gotta be the cool name, duh!


I always thought of Metallica as a kind of punk metal garage band up until the Black album changed that, which is also when I lost interest.

The Black Album was a crossover that brought female fans into the fold. That’s guaranteed massive success for any band. Same thing happened to Van Halen when Roth left and Eddie focused more on the keyboards, although that actually started with 1984. Jump was to Van Halen what Sandman was to Metallica…

 

[SonVolt]

The Black Album was a crossover that brought female fans into the fold.

And kids! A lot of pre-teens went ape shit when Enter Sandman hit MTV. A lot of those kids would go on to pick up a guitar.

 

[JSJ900]

I love Metallica. They defiantly influenced me, but I’m not famous. 1st tab book I bought and learned as much as I could, being mostly self-taught. Some of it was wrong, of course!

I also love GnR, but remember Slash coming up to get some award (probably MTV) and he had a Metallica hat or T-shirt on. I think I had heard “One”, but not “Master of Puppets”, “Creeping Death” or “The Four Horsemen”.

I listened to AJFA and got ahold of “Rust in Piece” and then “Peace Sells…..”

Then, came “The Black Album” - yeah, WAY better production, hooks (“Nothing else Matters” - Sir Elton John’s favorite song ever written, as well as something for the ladies, like my wife) it was all killer, no filler- “Hysteria”anybody?

Metal would have evolved without Metallica, but they sure brought it to the RADIO.

Metallica's great! Now we hear it at every sporting event and on commercials!

ACE OF SPADES!!!!

 

[SkyMonkey]

I love Metallica. They defiantly influenced me, but I’m not famous. 1st tab book I bought and learned as much as I could, being mostly self-taught. Some of it was wrong, of course!

My story too. Hilarious to see Art of Guitar on YT pull apart some of those tab books I took as gospel at the time!
Damn you Wolf Marshall.
But even though I learned the wrong notes and riffs, I still learned.

As for the Black Album, that was a real disappointment in many areas for me.
I hate Nothing Else Matters. It's just not me: Country & Western.
Gone were the epics like Orion, To Live Is to Die and The Call of Kthlu.
That was the last of theirs I bought new at release.