Astoria Custom has sound even with master volume at 0

[Kuga]

Hello all

Today was playing my '18 Astoria Custom while I was trying some power valves on It. I was using It with some backing tracks on the FX loop. It works great and It sounds fantastic. But then I realise with some power tubes you can hear the backing tracks even with master volume at 0. Trying an old Mullard EL34 quad with one pair you get sound with master volume at 0. Using the other Mullard EL34 pair no sound with master volume at 0. It's a noticiable sound. About 90dB. The same thing using a Svetlana EL34 quad. Trying an old GT EL34 quad on both pairs you can hear the backing tracks from the FX loop. Looks like If you try a brand new EL34 pair you can't hear anything. If you try a really used EL34 pair the amp sounds even with master volume at 0.

I tryed some new KT66 as well but they worked ok. No sound with master volume at 0.
The master volume pot works fine. All amp looks like It works great.
Does anyone have any explanation? Do this could be related because I use used valves on it?
Thanks.

 

[Ken Underwood]

How did you measure 90db?

 

[Kuga]

How did you measure 90db?

With an ambient dB meter. I know it's not a properly way to measure It. When I said "about 90 dB" I mean it's a noticiable sound from speakers. At 5W mode or 30W mode it's the same. You can hear the backing tracks from FX loop when I use some valves.

 

[Spanngitter]

I heard rumors that you can use EL34 in the Astoria but since it's KT66 based I would only try 6L6 or 5881 without doing any investigations first.
Since there is no availabel schematic (and I am too lazy to rip my Classic apart) there might be a chance that there is issues in wiring (is Pin 1 on GND or is it (ab)used as a terminal for e.g, screen resistor?
Also, if Steve D did keep it up with the Specs for KT66 then the primary Impedance of the OT is quite off for EL34 (KT66 usually run with 8 or 6.6k for a pair, whilst EL34 want to see something around 3-4k) so it will for sure not bring the best out of the tubes unless you cheat by intentionally (dis)placing the output connection.

 

[Kuga]

I heard rumors that you can use EL34 in the Astoria but since it's KT66 based I would only try 6L6 or 5881 without doing any investigations first.
Since there is no availabel schematic (and I am too lazy to rip my Classic apart) there might be a chance that there is issues in wiring (is Pin 1 on GND or is it (ab)used as a terminal for e.g, screen resistor?
Also, if Steve D did keep it up with the Specs for KT66 then the primary Impedance of the OT is quite off for EL34 (KT66 usually run with 8 or 6.6k for a pair, whilst EL34 want to see something around 3-4k) so it will for sure not bring the best out of the tubes unless you cheat by intentionally (dis)placing the output connection.

I don't want use EL34 with It anymore. Actually I use KT66 on It. But to my ears It sounds best with 5881. It's a really nice amp but I had many issues on It. I hope It don't breaks anymore. I will take a look and toke some resistance mesuraments. I will report It.

 

[Spanngitter]

Actually I use KT66 on It.

Mine is also still equipped with the original TAD KT66 it came with... and no issues whatever so far (purchased new in 2018)
and if I look around, it's accompanied by a Vintage Modern 50W (KT66), a Vintage Modern 100W (KT66) and a JTM45 (KT66)

 

[Kuga]

I heard rumors that you can use EL34 in the Astoria but since it's KT66 based I would only try 6L6 or 5881 without doing any investigations first.
Since there is no availabel schematic (and I am too lazy to rip my Classic apart) there might be a chance that there is issues in wiring (is Pin 1 on GND or is it (ab)used as a terminal for e.g, screen resistor?
Also, if Steve D did keep it up with the Specs for KT66 then the primary Impedance of the OT is quite off for EL34 (KT66 usually run with 8 or 6.6k for a pair, whilst EL34 want to see something around 3-4k) so it will for sure not bring the best out of the tubes unless you cheat by intentionally (dis)placing the output connection.

Pin 1 and 8 are joined. They are not reference to GND. About 690 ohms pin 1 to GND.

 

[Ken Underwood]

With an ambient dB meter. I know it's not a properly way to measure It. When I said "about 90 dB" I mean it's a noticiable sound from speakers. At 5W mode or 30W mode it's the same. You can hear the backing tracks from FX loop when I use some valves.

I think you need to read all about db and how to measure them with respect to something else, you cannot just measure it with a meter and quote that

 

[Mike_LA]

I think you need to read all about db and how to measure them with respect to something else, you cannot just measure it with a meter and quote that

True but it doesn't really matter to his question, "Should there is sound (That your ear can hear) coming from the fx loop with the master at 0?"

 

[Pete Farrington]

I don't want use EL34 with It anymore. Actually I use KT66 on It. But to my ears It sounds best with 5881

Are you setting the bias to a suitable level with all these different valve types and sets?

 

[Kuga]

I think you need to read all about db and how to measure them with respect to something else, you cannot just measure it with a meter and quote that

With all my respect Sir.
I wasn't able to explain myself properly or maybe you didn't undestand It. It's like I was talking about oranges on the trees and asking about oranges. Then you replyed about cars.

It's something I saw here several times from you.

 

[Dogs of Doom]

I heard rumors that you can use EL34 in the Astoria but since it's KT66 based I would only try 6L6 or 5881 without doing any investigations first.
Since there is no availabel schematic (and I am too lazy to rip my Classic apart) there might be a chance that there is issues in wiring (is Pin 1 on GND or is it (ab)used as a terminal for e.g, screen resistor?
Also, if Steve D did keep it up with the Specs for KT66 then the primary Impedance of the OT is quite off for EL34 (KT66 usually run with 8 or 6.6k for a pair, whilst EL34 want to see something around 3-4k) so it will for sure not bring the best out of the tubes unless you cheat by intentionally (dis)placing the output connection.

from a conversation you were apparently involved in, some 8 years ago...

Astoria Custom Description (AST2) - Page 2

<t>Nice to see the amp getting into some videos, this is how it starts. I trust the guy using the Astoria will have some pretty high praise for it and so it starts the urge to try one. As I said before, once someone plays through this amp I cannot ...

musiciansroadhouse.com

 

[Ken Underwood]

With all my respect Sir.
I wasn't able to explain myself properly or maybe you didn't undestand It. It's like I was talking about oranges on the trees and asking about oranges. Then you replyed about cars.

It's something I saw here several times from you.

Its just me, i say it as it is so if you get offended by my comments then so be it

 

[Kuga]

Its just me, i say it as it is so if you get offended by my comments then so be it

Sir. How can I get offended for someone that always complains for everything? How can I get offended for insignificant type of things? In fact, it was to be expected. I don't feel offended. This is so funy. Again we are talking about things that are irrelevant.

 

[Spanngitter]

*Brainfart*.. deleted...
I absolutely forgot about MR..not really participating there anymore since quite a while

 

[Ken Underwood]

Sir. How can I get offended for someone that always complains for everything? How can I get offended for insignificant type of things? In fact, it was to be expected. I don't feel offended. This is so funy. Again we are talking about things that are irrelevant.

Sarcasm will get you nowhere with me, water off of a ducks back.

 

[Dogs of Doom]

*Brainfart*.. deleted...
I absolutely forgot about MR..not really participating there anymore since quite a while

yeah, that comment from Steve was well afterwards. I just knew that this was discussed over there, I've seen Steve talk about his designs quite a bit, so I looked it up. Was surprised to see you in there early on...

It's nice to have these guys, that designed, & or worked on R&D that pop in to forums to share the stuff that the company officially can't.

& they are quite responsible in their replies, here, there & everywhere...

 

[Creach]

Hello all

Today was playing my '18 Astoria Custom while I was trying some power valves on It. I was using It with some backing tracks on the FX loop. It works great and It sounds fantastic. But then I realise with some power tubes you can hear the backing tracks even with master volume at 0. Trying an old Mullard EL34 quad with one pair you get sound with master volume at 0. Using the other Mullard EL34 pair no sound with master volume at 0. It's a noticiable sound. About 90dB. The same thing using a Svetlana EL34 quad. Trying an old GT EL34 quad on both pairs you can hear the backing tracks from the FX loop. Looks like If you try a brand new EL34 pair you can't hear anything. If you try a really used EL34 pair the amp sounds even with master volume at 0.

I tryed some new KT66 as well but they worked ok. No sound with master volume at 0.
The master volume pot works fine. All amp looks like It works great.
Does anyone have any explanation? Do this could be related because I use used valves on it?
Thanks.

Hello kuga,

About the power valves, the Astoria was designed for el34 (on the schematic the power valves are el34), so no trouble to install some in your amp.

The master volume is post phase inverter, cross line. A simple explanation can be that it is cancelling the sound going to each power valve. By mixing the inverted phase.

It need to be checked in the amp, but first thing come in mind is that one of the old valve is drawing less current from the phase inverter, resulting in a higher voltage on one phase, so less cancellation.

Worth to check it.

 

[Dogs of Doom]

Sarcasm will get you nowhere with me, water off of a ducks back.

can't we all just get along?

 

[Marcomel79]

can't we all just get along?

That would be nice...