Attenuator Thread

[JohnH]

Hi @C-Grin , Nice work, starting with great playing!

My take is: The Origin in its low power mode is a much brighter/harder tone than the others, which may well be the amp? What's your impression in the room?.
the JohnH - sounds just great to me!
PS-1: Although the level is a bit lower, You can give it fair listening with a bit more on the playback volume. And then it doesn't sound bad at all, but its not my favourite attenuated tone in this test!

 

[C-Grin]

Hi @C-Grin , Nice work, starting with great playing!

My take is: The Origin in its low power mode is a much brighter/harder tone than the others, which may well be the amp? What's your impression in the room?.
the JohnH - sounds just great to me!
PS-1: Although the level is a bit lower, You can give it fair listening with a bit more on the playback volume. And then it doesn't sound bad at all, but its not my favourite attenuated tone in this test!

Thank you for the kind words. And your assessment of the amp is pretty spot on. In 20 watt mode the tone is not quite as bright and much fuller, ballsier so to speak. I was hoping to match actual volumes as close as I could so the speaker itself would not be a factor (greenback in a home made 1x12). The John H does a phenomenal job
it does sound great. I actually gave the PS-1 away but it got brought back and was told he didn’t want it, and now want a John H after hearing it. So there is that endorsement also. But in the room the PS -1 not only throws a blanket over the amp it adds a weird tinny sound that is not pleasant. At lower levels of attenuation it’s not as noticeable to me.

 

[scozz]

I use a Weber Minimass 50 with my SC20, it has some nice features and it sounds great to me.

 

[purpleplexi]

This is a good thread!

BTW, that audio storm is a totally different design to ours, the only common factor is that it has some switches in a box!

Simple Attenuators - Design And Testing

Background Passive attenuators are wired between the amp output and the speakers. Their function is to absorb most of the output power of the amp, feeding a smaller amount to the speaker itself. This allows the amp output stage to run at higher power, letting the glorious tone of a good valve...

www.marshallforum.com

I'm glad about that as so many people have had good results with you design and one above was unusably bad. To my electronically illiterate eyes when I opened it up I saw some big resistors in a box so it looked the same. Sorry. I really should get off my lazy ass and have a try at making yours. Makes me wonder why the guy wouldn't just make and sell your design rather than something inferior - it's not as though you're claiming copyright.

 

[D-Max]

I own the -8 and -16db Thd Hot plates, and the purple Rivera Rockcrusher... Don't believe they are making the Thd any more, but would recommend, and recommend the Rivera... Both do well, never any problems... Let's you crank the volume...

The THD Hot Plate is being produced again, be it on a small scale: http://www.thdelectronics.com
Al impedances (2, 2.7, 4, 8 and 16 Ohm) can be had in either a full black or a black & gold enclosure.
Sales goes through eBay:
https://www.ebay.com/str/thdhotplatestore

 

[auburnshred]

Have not needed an attenuator for a long time...back in the day I used on of these with an old Fender Bassman.

 

[Frank Araneo]

Iron Man II here. I use it with Marshall JCM800, SV20C, Mesa heads (Mark IIC+, DC-3), and Fender amps. Love it because the input and output impedances are independently adjustable and the sound is fantastic. Two levels of attenuation (high and low), which provide lots of flexibility. Also has cab clone direct outputs.

 

[PelliX]

Should this be in "Marshall Amplifiers" rather than The Tone Zone? I think it's an honorable idea, but perhaps it should be moved and made a sticky if a clear list is delivered, similar to the Marshall Stock Tube Codes thingy.

The only "off the shelf" attenuator I've got is a PS1. It's a pile of wank when you turn up the attenuation factor. At its "minimum", it's still halving the output, which already sounds "quite shabby". The line outputs are a bad joke on par with the E-out of a DSL. It does everything it claims to, though, and the construction isn't too bad. The LPAD also makes a nasty grinding noise (through the speaker) when you adjust it. I'd recommend it for anyone who needs volume reduction regardless of audio quality or those in search of a cheap resistive load box. The best way I can describe the resulting sound is a tape recording, pushed well into the red, but onto really cheap and worn tape and played back. It loses the high and low end a bit, sounds very flat, bland and a little compressed.

 

[Purplexi]

I am running a vintage ALTAIR attenuator. It has two 8 ohm outputs and works fine with my late 70's 2203. Supposedly thay can fail when over used but it hasn't tanked yet. Sounds good!

 

[Salty Rose]

Lately, I like the 1987x the best, thru the PB100.

 

[tonefinder]

I use the Fryette PS2 with vintage amps (2203 and 2204) which do have a master volume, but I like the MV up around 4-5, which the attenuator allows. Great sound even at whisper volume.

At home, I built an isolation box which houses a miked 4x12 for recording. So the Fryette was purchased for gigging.

And it has an fx loop! Game changer. Never in 35 years of using these amps have I had such access. Now playing in a cover band, the versatility is useful.

 

[Brainyricardo]

Audiostorm do an awesome 60 watt reactive unit . They also do a Hb 120 and 125 and have just bought out the flagship HB130.
I own a 60 and 120. They are hand built in the UK with massively over speced parts. They are up there with Webber for a fraction of the price!

There are all kinds of requests for info on attenuators here, so I thought it might be an idea to create a thread where info on the various attenuators could be collected for easy reference.

We have our own JohnH attenuator, the various Weber models, Tone King, the Torpedo Captor units, the Jet City Jettenuator, the Jettenuator knockoffs, and of course the Marshal PowerBrake. There will be others that I have forgotten.

So maybe people can take the time to list which attenuator they own, what amp(s) they are using it with, and what they think of it. That way those looking for info have a one stop resource for info.

 

[Robert Hughes]

There are all kinds of requests for info on attenuators here, so I thought it might be an idea to create a thread where info on the various attenuators could be collected for easy reference.

We have our own JohnH attenuator, the various Weber models, Tone King, the Torpedo Captor units, the Jet City Jettenuator, the Jettenuator knockoffs, and of course the Marshal PowerBrake. There will be others that I have forgotten.

So maybe people can take the time to list which attenuator they own, what amp(s) they are using it with, and what they think of it. That way those looking for info have a one stop resource for info.

I'm running a Suhr SL68 with a BOSS Tube Amp Expander. It's my favorite so far. I've also used a Weber which was really good but wouldn't handle the SL68, and a Rockman Power soak. I've tried a few others, but like the BOSS for the ability to tweak the response curve of the attenuator, built in IR for recording/FOH, and MIDI capabilities.

 

[Jordan Prysmiki]

Only attenuator thread you'll need:

Simple Attenuators - Design And Testing

Background Passive attenuators are wired between the amp output and the speakers. Their function is to absorb most of the output power of the amp, feeding a smaller amount to the speaker itself. This allows the amp output stage to run at higher power, letting the glorious tone of a good valve...

www.marshallforum.com

 

[Dean Swindell]

I have a Granger 1987 with my favorite master volume I had to put in myself, but I use that and a Carl's Custom Amps attenuator together so I don't whittle the signal down too much in one place, it sounds really good. It took me a while but I was able to find out it's the same as the old Dr. Z Z-Brake. I used to have a Weber 200 watt with the speaker parts inside which I only sold because I didn't think I needed one anymore. That's my favorite. Worst I ever had was the Hot Plate - junk. Don't understand why it's so popular.

 

[BGK529]

Fryette PS2 w/ a 1974 100 watt Marshall Super Bass and I cannot recommend it enough if your firing up a fire breathing Vintage Marshall. Its an amazing unit w/ an amazing FX Loop built in. I even plugged my pedalboard and used the PS2 stand alone power amp into my 78 Marshall Cab (65s) and that would essentially be a viable back up had my Super Bass ever go down. The only other Attenuator I tried prior to that was a Rock crusher and it was good but it wasn’t close to the Fryette in attenuating w/o affecting the sound.

 

[kebek]

I use 2 THD on 2 1959 sound great, i also have PB100

 

[kilroy]

JHS Little Black Amp Box. goes in the effects loop, works great

 

[Joe Doblhofer]

Rivera RockCrusher with a 66 Fender Bassman, Marshall 2061X, Fender 68 Pro Reverb. Best I had so far. No percieveable coloration with the Bassman, a bit with the 2061X. Probably has to do with the negative feedback of that amp. Alternatively I use the Suhr Reactive Load to get line level and amplify back with a SD PowerStage. That's how Mike Landau does it.

 

[TrueFifth]

Great with a thread for summing up knowledge.

I would very much appreciate if respondents will give their experiences with some details of what kind of 'tone' their attenuators are used for.

This is because for a lot of people playing cleaner - on the edge of break up tones - or a little above - 'high end' frequencies are extremely important.

So - in regard to attenuators - there are two kinds of players:

Sensitive to 'high end'
Not Sensitive to 'high end'

The 'high end' sensitive types are typically either 'edge of break up tones' players or EVH distortion style players.

The 'not high end' sensitive players are typically those who go for a bit darker sounding Marshall overdriven lead tones.

For a more overdriven lead tone, high end is often not that important. Even less if you are a real 'Woman tone Marshall type' of guy. Probably also for those going for Eric Johnson sounding Marshall Lead tones, are not so sensitive to lesser high end in the distorted lead tones.
But for others, Pete Thorn fx, have a lot of high end in their distortion, and for this kind of sound, let's say more EVH kind of sound - high end and the feel of this, is quite important.

Then there is the discussion of the feeling of a 'speaker load' and the 'impedance frequency curve'.

Amps react differently to tones at different frequencies and volume/attack levels.
The older resistive attenuators fail at this.
The newer 'reactive' attenuators operate while emulating or reproducing a 'impedance frequency curve' that will allow for different impedance reactions at different frequencies and dynamic volumes.

Resistive Attenuators in particular, have a tendency to cut high end.

Reactive Attenuators have become better at retaining high end frequencies.

Fryette's Power Station has gained a lot of followers, being reactive, but it loads down the entire signal to line level, and reamplifies with tubes to desired volume - so by definition - it's not really a true attenuator. It's more a 'Re-amper'.

Boss Tube Amp Expander is the same as the Fryette in principle, but using solid state to reamplify.

Suhr's Reactive Load - goes by the same principle, but here you have to provide the reamplifier yourself. But Suhr's Reactive Load has a lot of positive users.

OX Amp Top Box, by UA, is a true attenuator, and works with a reactive load, but from what I can gather, it takes a bit of the high end frequencis off as well. But, on the other side, the inbuilt speaker emulations and effects and other features are superb.

Of some reason, it seems to be more feasible to make a 'reactive load' instead of a 'reactive variable volume attenuator' - it's apparently easier to load down the amp's signal to a low fixed volume level, fx line level, and then reamplify to desired volume, than to make an 'varable adjustable volume attenuator'.
Loading down and then reamping, you can also add line level effcts, before reamplifying.

It is probably something about getting the 'reactive impedance curve' right, it's easier to make a reactive load kind of signal at one particular fixed volume, than to something that varies with variable volume.

Aracom Attenuators has some 'variable volume' features - and it has its loyal following. I'm not entirely sure how reactive it is, some have said that it is quite 'resistive' in design. Still, Aracom talk about a 'speaker reactance through' system that I have yet to be explained. I would like to try for myself, but haven't been able to so far.
But I think it's about how much you attenuate - the more you attenuate the more 'resistive' the attenuation becomes.

Finally, of those I know that's not been mentioned - is a small production scale swedish manufactured reactive true attenuator by Mike Lind and Masterplant.com the Masterplant A2XR and a miniATTxr 5, there is a thread about it on TGP - but so far there are no good video demos of it. But from what Mike Lind writes himself, it sounds promising.

There are of course others, but these are some of the ones I have considered.


And for me:
I'm still looking for the perfect true attenuator.
I feel that reamping is countering the principle of having an amplifier.

I play mainly Fender amps on 'edge of break up' for clean tones, and I am here very sensitive to high end.
For me, so far, The Origin Effects RevivalDrive pedal has been the solution for these tones, and so far not an attenuator.

For Marshall lead, I got a PPIMV mod on my 1975 JMP, and that works great for me. I also have a custom built attenuator made for it, with real speakers and a resitive load in series, this one works great on its line out for recording with IR's and reamping, and then on its attenuated out, there are some 'high end loss' again. But I can live with it for Marshall lead tones.

I hope this all was useful for some.