Celestion Creamback G12M-65 Bright

[littlewyan]

I just fitted Celestion Creamback G12M-65 speakers into my Marshall 1936 as I wanted the Greenback tone with higher power handling (who doesn't) and I find them to be quite bright. If you stand near the cab so you're not directly in front of the speakers they sound great, but if you stand 2 metres back they're so ear piercing. Is anyone else's like this? I was under the impression they wouldn't have too much high end.

 

[jimmyjames]

Are they brand new? If so, they'll need to be broken in to give up their true tone. Your amp type and settings will also be a factor.

 

[Woods]

Yup gotta break it in; and adjust your EQ for each speaker.

 

[littlewyan]

Yeah I must admit I've only played through them for a few hours and that was using an attenuator. I'm just puzzled as I've heard someone say these are dark sounding speakers and I've heard comparison clips where they don't sound this bright. It was so bright that I covered the front of the cab with a thin blanket and that made it sound much better.

 

[jimmyjames]

I had to do that with my greenback 1x12 when I first got it, took the best part of a year of home playing to noticeably improve.

 

[Copperheadroads]

How are the Bass on the G12M-65 ?........... Tight?

 

[Georgiatec]

I put two 65 watt Creambacks in a MX212 which is the same size as a 1936 and they sound great. If you stand directly in front of a cab you are always going to hear the highs and miss the lows unless you crank it up to the point where you FEEL the lows. The ones I bought were second hand and I presume had been used and broken in. I think it's a case with all speakers that they will mellow with use.

 

[Blueslicks]

Pretty much any new guitar speaker has to be played loud and close to it's power handling threshold for many hours. I've bought used speakers that were kept in a bedroom rig and played for many years exclusively at low volume since new. They were barely broken in and sounded vastly superior after some serious volume abuse.

Now, you have 2X65 watt speakers = 130 watts power handling and perhaps a 100 watt amp to push them. Add a little more abuse time for a 50 watt head as it is a lighter overall load for that pair of speakers. *DO NOT ATTENUATE* Run your amp LOUD through those two speakers for; (at least) a couple of hours at a time, a couple of times a week for a couple of months and your speakers will be on their way to being broken in. Remember, I said LOUD. And here's a tip as well...play bar chords in a chugging style repetitively in all areas of the neck. Chug the low string chords for long durations (sometimes muting them with your palm) and slowly work your way to the brighter chords further up the neck then repeat over and over and over. Be percussive with your attack and somewhat aggressive at times. You are excersizing the cone so be assertive and make as many different sounds as possible with your guitar ie: feedback, ringing notes, deep bends, low notes, high notes, chords etc at LOUD volume.

Find a rehearsal place you can rent for a couple of hours a week where you can crank your amp to do this if you haven't access to a suitable environment.

They must be played LOUD.

IMO your speakers will never be broken in at low volume.

 

[neikeel]

I ran my G12H Heritages in a cab as slaves to our bass players cab for a couple of gigs, that did the trick! I had lost patience with normal playing methods to break them in.

 

[dreyn77]

DOn't be in such a hurry to sound like everyone else that's got these products.
just enjoy the strange tones while you've got them cause they won't last long.
within 2 weeks they should have changed. or a couple of powerful shows.
I wouldn't worry about it OR blast the crap out of them.

marshall is a bright sound.

 

[littlewyan]

I found a comparison clip on another forum of the Creamback vs the Greenback and the Creamback does sound pretty mid scooped in comparison and it definitely has more high end. This is after the user had broken them in. I'm starting to think I've made a mistake buying these . I did want to go for the Greenbacks but I was just worried about forgetting they're only rated for 25W each and plugging my amp directly into the cab. Its extremely rare I'd do that as there is no where round here that I can crank a 50W amp but I like my gear to be idiot proof.

Copperheadroads - The bass is tight on these speakers I think, but still breaks up the low end a bit.

 

[Blueslicks]

DOn't be in such a hurry to sound like everyone else that's got these products.
just enjoy the strange tones while you've got them cause they won't last long.
within 2 weeks they should have changed. or a couple of powerful shows.
I wouldn't worry about it OR blast the crap out of them.

marshall is a bright sound.

Indeed, Marshall is a bright sound and we tame that with punished speakers to get the Marshall sound we desire.

 

[dreyn77]

I think you're listening to the off center sound of these things littlewyan.
that's not the actual sound. that's heard while standing in the fireing line of the center of the cab.
but don't subject your self to that sound if it's powerful.

you won't hear those problem tones from that listening location.

the sound you're hearing is the bent sound off to the side of the actual sound.

from that location the sound just tells the listener the product is made with different ingredients to the other product.

you'll find that your actual sound is slightly duller than the greenback sound. but it's not worth thinking about or worrying about changing to another product.

listen to your sound from 20 metres away and 10 metres away and 5 metres away from the cab and find a good sound which you like.

the 'scooping' sound is just informing you that you've bought speakers from another era in manufacture.
they still make great sound and still allow you to adjust that great sound to have any level of bass mids and trebles.

Its as if you'd bought the 1975 model hot car but you're not sure you want the 1975 hot car, and you think maybe you should have bought the 1974 hot car.

they're all just 1970's hot cars. you're still getting the same stuff.
only a true 30 year pro expert could quickly choose which model is perfect for that particular song you'd be playing.
the next song might require the other speaker model.

then you'll need to get the well trained road crew to quickly whip off the back board on the cab and swapout the speaker model.

 

[littlewyan]

I've tried various positions and rooms to get a good sound out of these speakers but can't. The only way I've managed to get them to sound good is by wearing ear plugs and by putting a blanket over the cabinet. Only then is the high end reduced enough that I can hear the classic Greenback mid range snarl. I've tried standing 2 metres away and standing 5 metres away and the further back you stand the worse it gets.

I've tried 3 different amps on these speakers and none of them sound good through them. A Trainwreck Express, Marshall JTM50 and Marshall JTM1.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eUaqEqgUeTI

This is actually a good comparison video and shows how much brighter the Creamback is in comparison to the Greenback. I was actually after the Greenback tone originally and bought these as I thought they'd sound the same just with higher power handling. So far this doesn't seem to be the case. Honestly I know different speakers can sound good for different songs but these speakers just aren't good for anything in my rig. The piercing high end just dominates everything.

 

[RobS]

I have 4 of them in my 1960A and they sound great through my 2203 & 4100

I do not find them bright at all. I really think you need to give them time to loosen up

try playing a Bass through them to help loosen them up a bit. I did that along with playing music through them.

Even when brand new I did not find them bright, just a bit stiff however they have loosened up nicely........takes time !

 

[littlewyan]

Yeah but a 4x12 Slant is quite different compared to a 2x12 straight. I'll give them another go today. Can you safely play bass through guitar speakers? I plugged a bass into my Marshall AVT20 years ago and it did not sound good for the speaker at all.

 

[Georgiatec]

Play the cab with the blanket on until they're broken in.....Joe Massivbona has his cabs behind Perspex screens so he can't hear them. In that clip you posted I actually prefer the Creamback, that Greenie sounds mushy compared to the ones I have.

 

[dreyn77]

I plugged my bass into the 5010 combo. with very low volume and a reasonable gain setting the sound was brilliant and it matched gene simmons's sound and bob daisley's sound and others.
I do have the pickups which can change their sound. active and passive as well on the one bass guitar.


don't expect your old settings to sound good with the new speakers.

start back at zero again and go from there. I'd even check all the connections again just to be sure it's all setup right.

then give them 2 weeks for their natural sound to be displayed.

maybe they are displaying the actual sound of your gear and your settings.

I know a dude who bought rather expensive hand made speakers, used them for less than 2 days and took them back and went round town calling them crap!

well, in reality, the silly person was the guy who had them for less than 2 days. not the pro speaker maker.

 

[Kutt]

I have the same cab setup as RobS (1960A with G12M-65s) and I seem to be having the opposite effect you're having- I need to dial out some of the mids/lows a bit rather than the highs, so this is interesting. So many variables to contend with. I would agree with the general consensus that these lean toward more of a dark sound than a bright one for most people.

I am wondering how much of this has to do with the 2x12 cab and the "beam" effect I've read so much about from that configuration. A few questions please:

I assume you used the 1936 prior to installing the Creambacks and know what it sounded like previously? Are these blistering highs a direct before/after comparison to the same cabinet?

Have you removed the aforementioned attenuator from the equation and compared the tone with/without?

I know you wrote that you tried various positions, but did those positions include physically raising the cab further upwards (on a table or another cab for instance) just as a tone test? In theory that might exacerbate the problem but it might also help further rule out variables in the room and get you more of a "control" baseline.

Lastly, not to question your abilities, but is there *any* possibility the two were wired out of phase? I'm not convinced this would cause extreme highs but it might subtract enough lows from one of the speakers such that you're getting slammed with highs from just that one, which would be unpleasant.

 

[littlewyan]

Checked all the connections, the speakers are definitely in phase as that was my initial thought too. I've tried various settings on all amps and the only amp I can make sound good through these speakers is the JTM1. I think the issue is they're staying too clean, not breaking up much and have more upper mid range compared to normal Greenbacks. My previous speakers (Emi GB12s) had some nice breakup in the mids but had very clean low end which is why I wanted to switch to Greenbacks.

I've tried removing the attenuator but they sounded the same only louder (that hurt). The cab was pretty direct before but there wasn't so much high end that it sounded bad, it was actually quite nice no matter where you stood. I've not lifted the cab off the floor but I have moved it into a different room, or even put it in a room facing the doorway and stood in the next room playing. At practice I normally have it on the drummer's stage so its facing me and I've never had this issue.

I changed speakers because I wanted the snarly sound of the Greenbacks. The Emi GB12s were close but as I said the low end was very clean.