DSL100HR self switching channel

[Adrian Stoican]

Hi,

Just bought a DSL100HR head and noticed that it is self switching from clasic gain to ultragain chanel in a random way.

It happend 3 times in aprox. 20 hours of functioning and 2 times I was not even playing the guitar, the amp was on on classic gain crunch and switched suddenly on the ultragain.

I do not use the PEDL-90012 foot switch, I use instead a midi connection from loop controller Harley Benton FXL8 Pro ( everything works as expected here , could program and switching works fine through midi). The amp works perfect in rest nothing to complain except this strange behavior.

Q: any idea what is the problem and if/how can be fixed, is it something common ?

Thanks in advance!

 

[FracStrat]

Not a common issue but a known one …… Simple Midi PC commands ( only 4 that repeat ) being received by a very inexpensive IC …… A good Marshall Tech can replace it …… @Dogs of Doom knows a guy me thinks……

 

[Adrian Stoican]

Not a common issue but a known one …… Simple Midi PC commands ( only 4 that repeat ) being received by a very inexpensive IC …… A good Marshall Tech can replace it …… @Dogs of Doom knows a guy me thinks……

Thanks a lot for the answer !
so you mean after 4 midi commands that repeats (for example select crunch 4 times via midi) --> this problem appears ?

 

[FracStrat]

Thanks a lot for the answer !
so you mean after 4 midi commands that repeats (for example select crunch 4 times via midi) --> this problem appears ?

No ……4 PC numbers in a row should give the 4 options ……Two Channels and Two Masters …… Every 4 PC #s just repeat the options 1234 ……same with 5678 ……9 10 11 12 ……Etc.

 

[SkyMonkey]

I use my DSL40CR with MIDI switching and have had none of your problems.

MIDI on the DSLs works by receiving Program Change (PC) commands from a MIDI device.
I use a Boss GT-100 that has 4 Patches in each Bank.
In Bank 1:
The 1st patch sends PC#0 and activates Classic Clean.
The 2nd patch sends PC#1 and activates Classic Crunch.
Etc....
When you change to Bank2:
The 1st patch sends PC#4 and activates Classic Clean.
The 2nd patch sends PC#5 and activates Classic Crunch.
Etc....

This continues until PC#127 and then resets to PC#0.
As the GT-100 has 100 Banks (50 Factory + 50 User) the PC# cycle must repeat several times. (400/128=3.125)
The FXL8 has only 32 patches, so PC# should top out at PC#31.

Now, your ghost switching problem can only be caused by either a switching chip fault in the DSL or a PC# send error in the FXL8.
So we need to establish if the ghost switching only occurs when the FXL8 is in use or not to isolate the faulty device.

And welcome to the MF @Adrian Stoican
A pity it has to be a Marshall amp problem that brought you here.

 

[Adrian Stoican]

I use my DSL40CR with MIDI switching and have had none of your problems.

MIDI on the DSLs works by receiving Program Change (PC) commands from a MIDI device.
I use a Boss GT-100 that has 4 Patches in each Bank.
In Bank 1:
The 1st patch sends PC#0 and activates Classic Clean.
The 2nd patch sends PC#1 and activates Classic Crunch.
Etc....
When you change to Bank2:
The 1st patch sends PC#4 and activates Classic Clean.
The 2nd patch sends PC#5 and activates Classic Crunch.
Etc....

This continues until PC#127 then resets to PC#0.
As the GT-100 has 100 Banks (50 Factory + 50 User) the PC# cycle must repeat several times.
The FXL8 has only 32 patches, so PC# should top out at PC#31.

Now, your ghost switching problem can only be caused by either a switching chip fault in the DSL or a PC# send error in the FXL8.
So we need to establish if the ghost switching only occurs when the FXL8 is in use or not to isolate the faulty device.

And welcome to the MF @Adrian Stoican
A pity it has to be a Marshall amp problem that brought you here.

Thanks a lot for answer !
With switching via FXL8 midi I do not have any problem, so as mentioned I could program it and switch through all 4 modes (clean/crunch/OD1/OD2) back and forward works fine.
The problem is this "ghost switching" as you name it.. so the switching is done without that I press something and more strange is because this switch random occurs.
I will try without the FXL8 to see if this problem appears again...if yes it is the DLS .. if not the FXL8.. or do you have other idea ?

 

[SkyMonkey]

Apart from yourself (and I think we can rule out user error), the DSL and the FXL8 are the only switching devices.
So it must logically be one of them.
Probably best to try the DSL with no switching devices connected at all, so no PEDL-90012 either.

 

[SkyMonkey]

BTW The FXL8 appears to have the option of attaching two external footswitches that could be used for MV and FX Loop switching.
Have you tried using them?

 

[Adrian Stoican]

BTW The FXL8 appears to have the option of attaching two external footswitches that could be used for MV and FX Loop switching.
Have you tried using them?

Nope, did not tried, but I guess it is not external switches to connect there, you can actually use the FXL8 as an external switch via Y cable so practically I can use FXL8 instead of PEDL-90012 but in this way I am limited on 2 channel switch ...with midi I can control 4 instead

 

[SkyMonkey]

I see. They are only Amp Control triggers.

BTW You cannot use a DSL 2-button F/s (PEDL-90012) and MIDI switching at the same time.
The 6-button PEDL-91016 will work alongside MIDI though.
I think this is because they use very different switching methods.
The 2-button is TRS (Tip/Ring/Sleeve), whilst the 6-button is only TS (Tip/Sleeve).
So I would suspect that a Y-cable going into a TRS jack wouldn't work alongside DSL MIDI either.

Can I assume you are using the loops in the FXL8 to control other pedals too, otherwise the 6-button PEDL-91016 might be a better switching solution for you.

 

[ChuggyMcBr00tlz]

I had this problem once on a different brand of amp, drove me crazy... turned out to be dust in the channel switching button. try and blow that out with compressed air.

 

[Adrian Stoican]

No ……4 PC numbers in a row should give the 4 options ……Two Channels and Two Masters …… Every 4 PC #s just repeat the options 1234 ……same with 5678 ……9 10 11 12 ……Etc.

Thanks for answer ! now think I got it, but how can this be avoid/solved ? should be then safe just to use only one bank programmed with all 4 PC (1,2,3,4) and that is it.. and for all other banks sending no PC therfore PC set to OFF ?

 

[Adrian Stoican]

I see. They are only Amp Control triggers.

BTW You cannot use a DSL 2-button F/s (PEDL-90012) and MIDI switching at the same time.
The 6-button PEDL-91016 will work alongside MIDI though.
I think this is because they use very different switching methods.
The 2-button is TRS (Tip/Ring/Sleeve), whilst the 6-button is only TS (Tip/Sleeve).
So I would suspect that a Y-cable going into a TRS jack wouldn't work alongside DSL MIDI either.

Can I assume you are using the loops in the FXL8 to control other pedals too, otherwise the 6-button PEDL-91016 might be a better switching solution for you.

yes, I am using the FXL8 to controll other pedals too, therefore in this moment the easy solution for me is if I can use the FXL8 to control also the DSL..

 

[Adrian Stoican]

I had this problem once on a different brand of amp, drove me crazy... turned out to be dust in the channel switching button. try and blow that out with compressed air.

Thanks for your answer!
did not thought about that.. the amp it is actually unboxed from 7 days therefore I guess the dust maybe not the reason but maybe will check also that.

 

[SkyMonkey]

Thanks for answer ! now think I got it, but how can this be avoid/solved ? should be then safe just to use only one bank programmed with all 4 PC (1,2,3,4) and that is it.. and for all other banks sending no PC therfore PC set to OFF ?

In most devices the sending of PC messages is a global option, i.e. send for every patch or send for none.
The order of PC messages is set and cannot be programmed.
Bank 1 will be 0,1,2,3. Bank 2 will be 4,5,6,7. Etc...
But I can't see how this is part of your problem.
If the FXL8 is at fault, it is sending PC#3 (or equivalent to select OD2) randomly and shouldn't be anything to do with the selected Bank of presets.
Though that is something you would have to troubleshoot if the ghost switching is down to the FXL8.
It is far more likely to be the DSL switching chip that is faulty and will be covered under warranty if the amp is only 7 day old.
But first you have to prove (if only to yourself) that ghost switching is happening with nothing connected.
Intermittent faults are notoriously difficult to reproduce back at the shop where you bought the product.
They will just have to believe you and send the amp back to Marshall for repair under warranty.

 

[Adrian Stoican]

Ghost switch happen with nothing connected (FXL8 or PEDL-90012) therefore returned the amp.
Have buy same model from another dealer (this unit was made in 2020 and the previous, returned one in 2018) hoping that was some factory issue but the problem appeared once again using the FXL8 ...
So I am out of options here... maybe could be related to some electrical fluctuations...have no idea ... the single fact is that with the PEDL-90012 connected problem is not and was not also with previous unit.

 

[SkyMonkey]

If the problem is happening again in the same configuration but with a different amp, then surely the FXL8 is at fault.
Can you return the FXL8 for another one?
Also, Harley Benton products are some of the cheapest Thomann sell (in-house brand).
Maybe a Boss equivalent would be more reliable and versatile, despite a doubling of cost.
A Boss ES-5 has 5 loops. Is that enough for your pedals?
The interesting thing with an ES-5 is that you can assign the PC message for each of the 5 switches.
This frees you from the repetitive 1>2>3>4>(back to)1>2>3>4 rigid PC message progression settings of most multi effects.
i.e. any of the 5 footswitches can select any of the 4 DSL channels.
Boss ES-5: How to program your MIDI effects - YouTube
A Boss MS-3 (same price as ES-5) only has 3 loops, but has the guts of a Boss GT-100 multi effect too.
The MS-3 can assign PC message numbers too, so again you are free to assign any patch to any DSL channel.
MS-3 Quick Start Chapter9: Switching Programs of External MIDI Device (MIDI PC) - YouTube
If you sell on any pedals duplicated by the MS-3 and get your collection down to 2 unique pedals, you could use it in a 4CM MIDI controlled setup.
Also, don't forget that some pedals can be placed out front or in the DSL FX loop if they are 'Always-ON' or 'Dip IN-OUT' pedals.
This can save on 'Switcher' loops.
I use my 2018 DSL40CR in a 4CM MIDI controlled setup with a Boss GT-100 and have never had any 'Ghost Switching'.
Boss ES-5 Effects Switching System – Thomann UK
Boss MS-3 Multi Effects Switcher – Thomann UK

 

[Adrian Stoican]

If the problem is happening again in the same configuration but with a different amp, then surely the FXL8 is at fault.
Can you return the FXL8 for another one?
Also, Harley Benton products are some of the cheapest Thomann sell (in-house brand).
Maybe a Boss equivalent would be more reliable and versatile, despite a doubling of cost.
A Boss ES-5 has 5 loops. Is that enough for your pedals?
The interesting thing with an ES-5 is that you can assign the PC message for each of the 5 switches.
This frees you from the repetitive 1>2>3>4>(back to)1>2>3>4 rigid PC message progression settings of most multi effects.
i.e. any of the 5 footswitches can select any of the 4 DSL channels.
Boss ES-5: How to program your MIDI effects - YouTube
A Boss MS-3 (same price as ES-5) only has 3 loops, but has the guts of a Boss GT-100 multi effect too.
The MS-3 can assign PC message numbers too, so again you are free to assign any patch to any DSL channel.
MS-3 Quick Start Chapter9: Switching Programs of External MIDI Device (MIDI PC) - YouTube
If you sell on any pedals duplicated by the MS-3 and get your collection down to 2 unique pedals, you could use it in a 4CM MIDI controlled setup.
Also, don't forget that some pedals can be placed out front or in the DSL FX loop if they are 'Always-ON' or 'Dip IN-OUT' pedals.
This can save on 'Switcher' loops.
I use my 2018 DSL40CR in a 4CM MIDI controlled setup with a Boss GT-100 and have never had any 'Ghost Switching'.
Boss ES-5 Effects Switching System – Thomann UK
Boss MS-3 Multi Effects Switcher – Thomann UK

Thanks for your answer !

Not possible to return the FXL8, because was not recent bought, but as I mentioned the problem did happened for the returned DSL 100HR also when nothing was connected in the back (FXL8 or PEDL-90012) so, I am thinking that the FXL8 has nothing to do with

 

[SkyMonkey]

Ah. Forgot that bit!

 

[Ramo]

I wont start new thread since we have this one here.

my ultra channel is very noisy like hissing like pissed of snake. My noise gate wont get rod if it, green ch is not that bad but still hissing.
Dose tubes need replacing or something else is the problem?
Before was fine no unwanted noise when noise gate was on...


Thanks in advnace