DSL1HR power tube alternatives

[felipevsw]

This is my first small amp, despite having 6 big boys (50 and 100 Watters), and having owned a DSL20HR before, they all had EL34 as output tubes.

I understand this DSL1 has an ECC82 as a "power tube", and I was wondering if anyone ever tried different tubes in the power section, like an ECC83S, or a 7025 perhaps... Or does it need to be a low gain (20x gain factor) only in this position?

Also, I'm assuming this amp uses the two triodes as a push pull power amp, correct? This being the case, would it benefit from a balanced tube, like the ones people usually put in the PI position on the bigger brothers?

Cheers!

 

[knulp]

It does need the ecc82.
Ecc83 make it sounding like a broken amp!
Don’t waste money on matched triodes and alike..
The only alternative is a 12bh7 which will sound slightly more powerful and surely bigger

 

[Dogs of Doom]

you can use a 12BH7A...

as stated, the 12AX7/ECC83 will make it sound broken...

 

[felipevsw]

It does need the ecc82.
Ecc83 make it sounding like a broken amp!
Don’t waste money on matched triodes and alike..
The only alternative is a 12bh7 which will sound slightly more powerful and surely bigger

you can use a 12BH7A...

as stated, the 12AX7/ECC83 will make it sound broken...

I'm not familiar with this tube. What makes it a good candidate for this position on this amp? Is it low gain factor too, or is it something else? If you care to elaborate a little (or a lot hehe).

I assume the ECC83 will not sound good because of its 100x gain factor, correct?

 

[felipevsw]

you can use a 12BH7A...

as stated, the 12AX7/ECC83 will make it sound broken...

I'm checking a local store here, and they have two 12BH7, one from Hitachi and one from Matsushita (which is written Made in Japan). Any experience with these? Which one would be better? Both are priced very close, almost equal.

 

[knulp]

I'm checking a local store here, and they have two 12BH7, one from Hitachi and one from Matsushita (which is written Made in Japan). Any experience with these? Which one would be better? Both are priced very close, almost equal.

Both good,Matsushita if I remember correctly was a Mullard cousin,but really..get both,they are old world products made to last.
Unless they are priced like antique rarities.

If you are set on getting only one and they are priced honestly you can ship one to me..

 

[knulp]

I'm not familiar with this tube. What makes it a good candidate for this position on this amp? Is it low gain factor too, or is it something else? If you care to elaborate a little (or a lot hehe).

I assume the ECC83 will not sound good because of its 100x gain factor, correct?

It will work correctly in the circuit providing a bigger sound,without requiring much power and without stressing the transformer

The ecc83 would provide zero headroom and very bad tone,distorting triodes are not what we usually associate with tube distortion,it’s a nasty thing

 

[dekzan33]

Please, can I try real power amp tubes like EL34, KT88, 6L6 in the DSL 1 HR ?

 

[Georgiatec]

Please, can I try real power amp tubes like EL34, KT88, 6L6 in the DSL 1 HR ?

Nope...won't fit. Totally different base.

 

[Georgiatec]

I'm checking a local store here, and they have two 12BH7, one from Hitachi and one from Matsushita (which is written Made in Japan). Any experience with these? Which one would be better? Both are priced very close, almost equal.

I've dropped a 12BH7 in my JCM1h. TBH there's no real difference to the 12AU7. You can't put 12AX7's or similar in because they can't handle the current. They may work for a short time but will sound horrible and blow quickly, might even damage the amp.

 

[knulp]

I've dropped a 12BH7 in my JCM1h. TBH there's no real difference to the 12AU7. You can't put 12AX7's or similar in because they can't handle the current. They may work for a short time but will sound horrible and blow quickly, might even damage the amp.

Don’t you find a little of a bigger bass?

 

[Georgiatec]

Don’t you find a little of a bigger bass?

Not so much that it's obvious, maybe a little. the best tube I've found for the output stage of the JCM1h is an unbalanced early '60's Mullard ECC82.

 

[felipevsw]

Not so much that it's obvious, maybe a little. the best tube I've found for the output stage of the JCM1h is an unbalanced early '60's Mullard ECC82.

I have a new production Mullard ECC82 on its way, probably arriving today.
I also ordered a Sylvania 12BH7 Black Plate to have some spare (one of the two) and also to compare if the sound will change or not between these two tube types.
I'll report back once I can test both later this week.

 

[Georgiatec]

I have a new production Mullard ECC82 on its way, probably arriving today.
I also ordered a Sylvania 12BH7 Black Plate to have some spare (one of the two) and also to compare if the sound will change or not between these two tube types.
I'll report back once I can test both later this week.

The New Sensor "Mullards" are nothing like the original UK tubes, maybe not a bad thing though.

 

[Dave_11]

I have a new production Mullard ECC82 on its way, probably arriving today.
I also ordered a Sylvania 12BH7 Black Plate to have some spare (one of the two) and also to compare if the sound will change or not between these two tube types.
I'll report back once I can test both later this week.

Thanks for trying these -- looking forward to hearing what difference they make in tone. I tried a JJ branded ECC82 in mine but couldn't hear any difference to the stock Marshall tube, which I assume is a JJ. I'd like to try more tubes, but I kind of hate to keep throwing money at this thing. Pretty soon I'm going to have as much in tubes as I paid for it.

 

[Dogs of Doom]

Not so much that it's obvious, maybe a little. the best tube I've found for the output stage of the JCM1h is an unbalanced early '60's Mullard ECC82.

maybe you had a weak tube?

it makes my amp sound a lot bigger. but, IIRC, didn't you say you didn't hear a difference between KT88 & EL34 in the SV/SC20? (which I think was a big difference)

It gives more headroom / bandwidth & actually makes the amp able to push 2 watts.

do note, that, the JCM1 & the DSL1/JVM1 are 2 totally different designs...

 

[felipevsw]

Thanks for trying these -- looking forward to hearing what difference they make in tone. I tried a JJ branded ECC82 in mine but couldn't hear any difference to the stock Marshall tube, which I assume is a JJ. I'd like to try more tubes, but I kind of hate to keep throwing money at this thing. Pretty soon I'm going to have as much in tubes as I paid for it.

Mine came with a Marshall branded ECC82 (red label). As far as I know, these red Marshall label tubes are all JJs, so I can imagine they wouldn't make much a difference from one another.
The stock ECC82 wasn't working when I got the amp, so I couldn't really hear it unfortunately.
The Sylvania 12BH7 black plate arrived earlier today, and the amp sounded glorious using it! Unfortunately they didn't deliver the Mullard ECC82 today, so I can't compare the two types yet, but if I only had the 12BH7 I would definitely use it and wouldn't feel the need to change it at all.

 

[knulp]

Mine came with a Marshall branded ECC82 (red label). As far as I know, these red Marshall label tubes are all JJs, so I can imagine they wouldn't make much a difference from one another.
The stock ECC82 wasn't working when I got the amp, so I couldn't really hear it unfortunately.
The Sylvania 12BH7 black plate arrived earlier today, and the amp sounded glorious using it! Unfortunately they didn't deliver the Mullard ECC82 today, so I can't compare the two types yet, but if I only had the 12BH7 I would definitely use it and wouldn't feel the need to change it at all.

Sylvania are great tubes!
Where did you find it?
I’d like to get some nos 12bh7.

What was the price of the Japanese at the local shop?

I had a jtm1h and now my only 1 watter is a modded dsl1h.
I’ve found that on the jtm1h a nos output tube was mandatory as that amp relies on output stage distortion (I assume the same for the jmp1h and jcm1h).
It was needed to avoid an abrupt transition from clean to dirty but expecially from dirty to clean on the notes tails..

The dsl1h instead sounds great even with the worst Chinese,but still better with nos.

 

[cccc]

There is some shop that has 3 separate options for tubes for all the Marshall 1 watt amps . There is the economy pick , the middle ground pick and the premium pick and the price differences are huge.

Can't seem to remember where I saw it but if I remember I'll post that link.

 

[Georgiatec]

maybe you had a weak tube?

it makes my amp sound a lot bigger. but, IIRC, didn't you say you didn't hear a difference between KT88 & EL34 in the SV/SC20? (which I think was a big difference)

It gives more headroom / bandwidth & actually makes the amp able to push 2 watts.

do note, that, the JCM1 & the DSL1/JVM1 are 2 totally different designs...

I bought two. An old NOS Pinnacle from the '70's and a newer Shuguang. I've left the Pinnacle in there for now. The JCM1 has the same tube compliment as the new DSL1hr, but as you said a totally different circuit. Wasn't me with the SV20 as I haven't tried any KT88's in it. Mine sounds just great with the RFT EL34's in there atm....as most Marshalls do.