DSL20cr Ultra Gain better than 40cr Ultra Gain Red?

[phase27]

Hey guys,


I’m playing both amps side by side. Going to keep one, sell the other. I switch back and forth running each amp section into the 20cr cab (with a V Type) for consistency. That way I know I’m hearing the amp differences, not the cabinet/speaker differences.

Am I crazy or does the 20 sound better for high gain? I’m playing at low volume, so I have a volume knob in the loop, amp channel volume at Noon. On the 40, I’ve got the MV at Noon, channel volume barely cracked open. Gain around 2 or 3 o clock for both. EQ generally close to noon on both. 80s metal through pop punk, on a single coil Strat.

Best way I can describe it, the 20 just sounds a little sweeter. I think it has more clarity? The 40 is just a little more boxy/nasally by comparison. I know it’s been said on here that the 40CR is better for bedroom levels, and the 20CR shines when cranked. But the 20CR sounds better to me for high gain, even at bedroom volume (with the volume knob in the loop of course - without it, it sounds pretty bad at low volume).

I want to keep the 40. Love all the extra channels. And my 20 has the loud hiss/wind that I’ve been told can’t be fixed (even on clean channel, with no guitar plugged in - it’s got a very loud noise floor). But this tone difference for my main go-to tone has me scratching my head. Maybe I wouldn’t notice it as much if I wasn’t doing a side by side comparison.

Does anyone else have this experience playing the 2 amps?

 

[scozz]

I think it would be better if you just compare them each straight up,…. as they come.

Which ever one you decide to keep, your decision will be based on the way the amp sounds with its own speaker and cab.

With all the inherent strengths and weaknesses that come with it.

Just my

 

[phase27]

Totally agree, I should elaborate more... I've got a Creamback in the DSL40, but I already know I like the V-Type better, so I'm going to sell the Creamback (which was a surprise to me, but I really love the V Type). So I want to hear them both through the speaker I know I'm going to keep, and it happens to currently be in the DSL20. Wish I had 2 V Types to trial!

Edit: Before when the V Type was in the 40CR, and the Creamback was in the 20CR, the 40 won out, hands down. But I swapped them because I thought the Creamback would make the 40 even better, and it didn't. Realized the V Type is my speaker, then to my surprise, the 20 with the V Type was sounding better than the 40 with the V Type... hence where I began side by side.

Typing it all out makes me feel like I'm over thinking it, but the tone difference is definitely there, which kinda led me to wondering what other's experiences were with the Ultra Gain of each amp.

 

[fitz]

I've never played the 40, but I can get just about anything I want out of my 20H & 2 MX112s.
Speakers, tubes, and pedals can change everything.
(Only stock tubes I have in any amp are probably PI slots)
Tried V-types with my 20 and like the V30/T-75 set better.

 

[phase27]

Yeah, I would love to play a 20HR with a separate cab.

I haven't changed tubes for specific tones, only changed them when they were blown. May try that some day. I have a Boss OD3 that I use as a clean boost. It's flat, so it doesn't color the tone like a mid hump pedal, but have always wanted to try the classic SD1 too.

The OD3 does work really well though when dialing back the gain though on either amp, then engaging the boost.

 

[purpleplexi]

Don't like the 'hot' channel on the 40 - just too compressed for me. Far prefer the crunch channel with a pedal.

 

[fitz]

Yeah, I would love to play a 20HR with a separate cab.

I haven't changed tubes for specific tones, only changed them when they were blown. May try that some day. I have a Boss OD3 that I use as a clean boost. It's flat, so it doesn't color the tone like a mid hump pedal, but have always wanted to try the classic SD1 too.

The OD3 does work really well though when dialing back the gain though on either amp, then engaging the boost.

I like pedal gain on the green channel.
MXR Super Badass Modified OD on the DSL20HR.
And as may have been mentioned before - EQ in the loop is an amp changer.

And also: stock tubes suck.

 

[phase27]

I'll play around with that crunch channel and a boost. Just out of curiosity, have you played the 20? I'm trying to figure out if the 20 is also known for the compression issue at high gain (I mean, to me it seems a little better, but it's so close, so I was curious for other's experience).

 

[tmingle]

Wait til I zip up my flame suit

I actually added the missing bright cap to OD1/OD2 channel on my 40CR. I used 330pf.

 

[scozz]

Don't like the 'hot' channel on the 40 - just too compressed for me. Far prefer the crunch channel with a pedal.

Agreed man, sometimes in the green channel too I’ve noticed, turning down the bass a little helps a smig.

I’ve been using a eq pedal with my little Dsl1hr for a couple of weeks now, with that I’ve been able to dial out some of the compression. It’s made a nice improvement in the tone.

The eq pedal, and a lower gain, preamp tube, (5751), in V1 have made a significant improvement. It’s still a Dsl of course, but it sounds better now, to my ears.

Definitely sounds less compressed to me, and that’s all I was hoping for.

 

[scozz]

A

I'll play around with that crunch channel and a boost. Just out of curiosity, have you played the 20? I'm trying to figure out if the 20 is also known for the compression issue at high gain (I mean, to me it seems a little better, but it's so close, so I was curious for other's experience).

I think pretty much all from Dsls’ from 2012 forward are known for their compression, not the first generation Dsl afaik.

Try different lower gain preamp tubes, that’ll help a little, and like @fitz said, definitely an eq pedal in the loop.

I have 2 main amps that I play 90% of the time, both have eq pedals in the loop.

 

[Gene Ballzz]

I own both of these amps! While the DSL40CR has a more versatile preamp section, for my tastes, the DSL20CR power section has a more pleasing power section overdrive distortion, and is just a tiny bit more volume friendly when achieving it! For preamp only overdrive, at lower volumes, the 40CR wins this race.
Just Sayin'
Gene

 

[phase27]

Thanks Gene! Your input has been helpful on my DSL40 journey.

And thanks everybody else. I think I’m going to keep the 40 because I like the bigger cabinet, but will shop for a good EQ. I guess I’ll get the Boss 7 band, or the MXR 10 band. The smaller 7 band MXR band would fit better but I like that the 10 band has volume and gain. Seems like that would be cool to have in the loop.

 

[fitz]

Thanks Gene! Your input has been helpful on my DSL40 journey.

And thanks everybody else. I think I’m going to keep the 40 because I like the bigger cabinet, but will shop for a good EQ. I guess I’ll get the Boss 7 band, or the MXR 10 band. The smaller 6 band MXR band would fit better but I like that the 10 band has volume and gain. Seems like that would be cool to have in the loop.

I have all 3 of those EQs - they all work well.
The GE-7 is a step above the MXR 6 as it also has the level slider.
Hands down, the MXR10 has the most versatility, but keep in mind it runs on 18v.

 

[steveb63]

Sold a DSL 40 that rarely was used.

Last spring bought a DSL 20HR that's usually the first amp used, out a few different different choices.

 

[phase27]

Sold a DSL 40 that rarely was used.

Last spring bought a DSL 20HR that's usually the first amp used, out a few different different choices.

Cool. Just curious, what didn't you like about your 40? Was the the C or CR?

 

[steveb63]

I

Cool. Just curious, what didn't you like about your 40? Was the the C or CR?

It was the "C" version.

Seems to me, just my worthless opinion etc.... that maybe they've re-voiced the Red channel.

Even the green channel, now that I think of it.

Could be how channel structure is on the 20. Just more useable for my purposes.

It's so subjective, but at the right price either are usuable, just to me I like the 20 Head.

 

[phase27]

Yeah it's incredibly subjective. Way too many variables in the chain for sure. But I'm always curious for others experiences, appreciate it!

 

[phase27]

Try different lower gain preamp tubes, that’ll help a little, and like @fitz said, definitely an eq pedal in the loop.

I have a question that may or may not be related to this... but does hot vs cool bias have anything to do with the gain? The amp was biased to 44 when I got it. I changed the power tubes and turned them down to 36. You mentioned a lower gain preamp tube effects the gain - what effect would the bias have on the amount of gain its getting?

 

[tmingle]

I have a question that may or may not be related to this... but does hot vs cool bias have anything to do with the gain? The amp was biased to 44 when I got it. I changed the power tubes and turned them down to 36. You mentioned a lower gain preamp tube effects the gain - what effect would the bias have on the amount of gain its getting?

Bias regulates the amount of current that can pass through the power tubes. Too high & the tube life will be greatly diminished. Too low & the amp will not sound good. I would say 44mv is pretty high. I set mine at 32mv. I played around with the settings on the original 40C & heard no difference between 30-38mv. Since my room is small, I try to keep the SPL blow 100db. I did crank both the 40C & 40CR right after purchase to ensure they would hold up. ! thing to mention here is the fact that I have not had very good luck using JJ's in these amps. I use TAD EL-34 because the voltage ratings on the Plate & Screen grid are a little higher.