Floyd Rose Intonation Problem (Help?)

[crossroadsnyc]

So, dating back to the Spring of 2021, I’ve been slowly but surely selling off all of my guitars other than my Les Paul. I did this because I just kind of reached a point where it was pretty much the only one I’ve been playing (plus, I’ve been kind of wanting to start from “scratch” for years now, and yeah … I just finally did it). Anyway, I recently got rid of the last one, but rather than sell it, I wound up trading it for a guitar that my daughter fell in love with … a Charvel So Cal in Platinum Pink. It’s a super looking guitar, and I thought I could have some fun with it as she grows into it. Beginnings of a good memory for the two of us, right? Great way to start from scratch!

Here’s the problem: When I got the guitar, it felt great, but I could tell it could use a setup, as the intonation was audibly off. Not a big deal, right? Well, not so fast. Fast forward a few weeks, and while I primarily have the guitar set up the way I want, I can’t for the life of me get the low E string to intonate properly. I have the other 5 right on point, but the low E just remains flat regardless of what I do. I finally grew so frustrated that I decided to bite the bullet and take it into a tech (which was a LONG drive), but frustratingly, it came back pretty much exactly as I gave it to him (he was stumped too). I spent pretty much all last night, and a good part of today hoping to figure it out, but I’m right back to square one … I just can’t get that damn low E string to intonate properly. For reference, it’s a bit flat. When I started a few weeks ago, it was REALLY flat, but now it’s just a bit … still, it’s enough to make the guitar unplayable for me, and most certainly not a guitar I’d want to pass onto my daughter.

Not going to lie … I’ve been so frustrated the past 24 hours that I’ve had thoughts of grabbing an axe from the garage, pounding the hell out of it, tossing it into the trash, calling it a loss, and just moving on.

I have a lot of experience setting up a FR, but I’m completely stumped. Can any of you guys who have some experience with a FR share any thoughts as to what I might be missing? The tech I took it to thinks it’s just a matter of it being the sum of all parts, and that it’s about as good as I’m going to get it (meaning, it’s basically just a faulty guitar) … could this be right? Could I just have somehow found a guitar that won’t work right regardless of what I do? I hate to admit defeat given I was hoping to make some great memories with the guitar, but I also don’t want to spin my wheels on something that ultimately won’t come to fruition. Is there such a thing as a guitar that just simply won’t set up properly for whatever reason (aka the sum of all parts = bad news)?

 

[WillyW]

skinnier low E string,

is the saddle all the way forward?

your knife edges could be worn forcing the entire bridge forward

a tech worth driving to could have diagnosed that

 

[StrummerJoe]

I

So, dating back to the Spring of 2021, I’ve been slowly but surely selling off all of my guitars other than my Les Paul. I did this because I just kind of reached a point where it was pretty much the only one I’ve been playing (plus, I’ve been kind of wanting to start from “scratch” for years now, and yeah … I just finally did it). Anyway, I recently got rid of the last one, but rather than sell it, I wound up trading it for a guitar that my daughter fell in love with … a Charvel So Cal in Platinum Pink. It’s a super looking guitar, and I thought I could have some fun with it as she grows into it. Beginnings of a good memory for the two of us, right? Great way to start from scratch!

Here’s the problem: When I got the guitar, it felt great, but I could tell it could use a setup, as the intonation was audibly off. Not a big deal, right? Well, not so fast. Fast forward a few weeks, and while I primarily have the guitar set up the way I want, I can’t for the life of me get the low E string to intonate properly. I have the other 5 right on point, but the low E just remains flat regardless of what I do. I finally grew so frustrated that I decided to bite the bullet and take it into a tech (which was a LONG drive), but frustratingly, it came back pretty much exactly as I gave it to him (he was stumped too). I spent pretty much all last night, and a good part of today hoping to figure it out, but I’m right back to square one … I just can’t get that damn low E string to intonate properly. For reference, it’s a bit flat. When I started a few weeks ago, it was REALLY flat, but now it’s just a bit … still, it’s enough to make the guitar unplayable for me, and most certainly not a guitar I’d want to pass onto my daughter.

Not going to lie … I’ve been so frustrated the past 24 hours that I’ve had thoughts of grabbing an axe from the garage, pounding the hell out of it, tossing it into the trash, calling it a loss, and just moving on.

I have a lot of experience setting up a FR, but I’m completely stumped. Can any of you guys who have some experience with a FR share any thoughts as to what I might be missing? The tech I took it to thinks it’s just a matter of it being the sum of all parts, and that it’s about as good as I’m going to get it (meaning, it’s basically just a faulty guitar) … could this be right? Could I just have somehow found a guitar that won’t work right regardless of what I do? I hate to admit defeat given I was hoping to make some great memories with the guitar, but I also don’t want to spin my wheels on something that ultimately won’t come to fruition. Is there such a thing as a guitar that just simply won’t set up properly for whatever reason (aka the sum of all parts = bad news)?

I have run into this problem before and it can be extremely frustrating as it shouldn't be able to happen like that.

Either set it aside and come back to it later, or sell it. You can always get another.

Do you have a Floyd Rose specific intonation tool? They are fairly cheap and work excellent...makes dialing it in easier and more accurate.

 

[crossroadsnyc]

I

I have run into this problem before and it can be extremely frustrating as it shouldn't be able to happen like that.

Either set it aside and come back to it later, or sell it. You can always get another.

Do you have a Floyd Rose specific intonation tool? They are fairly cheap and work excellent...makes dialing it in easier and more accurate.

This is the biggest frustration I’m facing, as I have the saddle literally as far forward as it will go. In fact, given it’s at the max, I’d expect it to be sharp at this point rather than still being flat. It’s a hair pulling frustration level. I literally don’t know what else to do, as everything else is seemingly perfectly in balance.

 

[crossroadsnyc]

skinnier low E string,

is the saddle all the way forward?

your knife edges could be worn forcing the entire bridge forward

a tech worth driving to could have diagnosed that

The FR itself is in fine shape, so that’s not it unfortunately. He checked over everything, and I asked him to in the event that I missed something obvious. He did come recommended, and I went to him hoping a second set of eyes might help (sometimes we get tunnel vision and overlook the obvious).

Your other suggestion is interesting, as I hadn’t considered trying that. I’ve never mixed gauges, as I always figured it would feel funny, but maybe worth a try? Still, as simple of a fix as that sounds, I’d hate to have to buy two sets of strings every time I want to change them. Sounds like it could be an interesting fix, but one I’m not all that excited about.

 

[StrummerJoe]

This is the biggest frustration I’m facing, as I have the saddle literally as far forward as it will go. In fact, given it’s at the max, I’d expect it to be sharp at this point rather than still being flat. It’s a hair pulling frustration level. I literally don’t know what else to do, as everything else is seemingly perfectly in balance.

Yeah, no. All the way foward definitely isn't right, but I have seen it before.

I reccomend selling it. So Cals are common, even in platinum pink. I know that's not the ideal answer, but how soon do you want to be completely bald?

 

[saxon68]

Possibly the stud placement is off?

 

[WillyW]

doesn't take much to throw it off

 

[StrummerJoe]

Possibly the stud placement is off?

That's one of the couple of things I can think of too, which "shouldn't" happen on a cnc routed body, but with the high volumes these are produced in it is possible for the blank to have suffered a minor shift while being routed/drilled.

While the QC is pretty good in their Mexico factory, when considering the numbers they produce something is bound to get by.

Bad pivot points on the trem can be a hassle too, but if it is returning to pitch rather than flat or sharp it's something else.

 

[DirtySteve]

I hate to say it, but if your tech couldn't figure it out to at least tell you what the issue is, fixable or not, then it's probably time to find a new tech. I just have a hard time believing it's not fixable.

 

[crossroadsnyc]

I hate to say it, but if your tech couldn't figure it out to at least tell you what the issue is, fixable or not, then it's probably time to find a new tech. I just have a hard time believing it's not fixable.

Yeah, that’s kind of why I’m asking the question. In fairness, he’s not “my tech” … it’s just that we live in a very rural area, and after putting out some feelers to people I trust, this guys name came up as someone who did pretty solid work. It was 3 hours round trip (twice!). The next closest would extend that to about double the driving. I could always just ship it to someone, but I feel like that’s a gamble and could get quite expensive given it’s a MIM guitar. Btw., that’s not a dig at MIM guitars, as I’ve had good luck w/them so far.

 

[crossroadsnyc]

Yeah, no. All the way foward definitely isn't right, but I have seen it before.

I reccomend selling it. So Cals are common, even in platinum pink. I know that's not the ideal answer, but how soon do you want to be completely bald?

This is kind of where my thoughts have drifted in the last few hours.

I dunno … I think I’m going to revisit it a couple more times, and if I can’t get it straightened out, I might just pull the pups to toss in the drawer, and just scrap the rest. I wouldn’t feel comfortable selling this to someone and giving them the same headache. You win some and you lose some

On a happy note, my daughter did find a cute pink ukulele while there, so she got an early Christmas present (which she’ll get on Christmas haha). All is not lost … gotta keep the positives in mind!

 

[Kutt]

What model Floyd? Original? Special? Other?
What gauge strings?
Do you know about how flat it really is, as in roughly how many cents off?
Is it flat when plucked open, fretted, or both?

There is a technical reason this is happening. I may hammer you with more questions.

 

[Leonard Neemoil]

Locknut problem?

 

[Kutt]

I just looked up that guitar. Is it the HSH model?

This is a long shot, but there's a whole bunch of magnets under those strings. Are your pickups set rather high? Try lowering them, especially the middle single coil. I wonder if there is a string pull effect with the magnets going on. Low E = more mass to pull...

 

[DirtySteve]

Yeah, that’s kind of why I’m asking the question. In fairness, he’s not “my tech” … it’s just that we live in a very rural area, and after putting out some feelers to people I trust, this guys name came up as someone who did pretty solid work. It was 3 hours round trip (twice!). The next closest would extend that to about double the driving. I could always just ship it to someone, but I feel like that’s a gamble and could get quite expensive given it’s a MIM guitar. Btw., that’s not a dig at MIM guitars, as I’ve had good luck w/them so far.

I hear ya, I'm kind of in the same boat. The guy around here that everybody recommends is ok, he can do set ups and all, but I've had to replace 2 nuts he made for me. The good that came from it is that it forced me to learn a new skill, after about 15 tries I can now make a proper nut. lol

 

[crossroadsnyc]

What model Floyd? Original? Special? Other?
What gauge strings?
Do you know about how flat it really is, as in roughly how many cents off?
Is it flat when plucked open, fretted, or both?

There is a technical reason this is happening. I may hammer you with more questions.

I’m pretty sure it’s a 1,000 series.

The guitar came with 9-42’s, which is what I’d typically use on a SuperStrat, and it’s been restrung twice so far in the last couple of weeks (all the same brand/gauge).

Well, a couple of weeks ago, it was roughly a quarter step flat (so like REALLY flat), and I’ve managed to improve that to maybe 1/8th(?) … I’m not sure how this works out in cents, but for reference, if you’re looking at a Korg Pitch Black tuner, it’s like 2-3 red bars off. How’s that for a technical response!

Yes, the guitar is tuned up, and the open string matches with the 12th fret harmonic (right on point), but it’s when I fret the 12th that it goes flat on me. The other 5 strings are not giving me any problems at all.

Hammer away!

 

[crossroadsnyc]

I just looked up that guitar. Is it the HSH model?

This is a long shot, but there's a whole bunch of magnets under those strings. Are your pickups set rather high? Try lowering them, especially the middle single coil. I wonder if there is a string pull effect with the magnets going on. Low E = more mass to pull...

Yep, that’s the one (HSH). Pretty guitar, right?

Interestingly, that thought did cross my mind early on, but I dismissed it since I was under the impression that the pups being too high would cause problems with it going sharp … is that not the case? Also, wouldn’t that affect the other strings as well? Is it possible that it’d only affect the low E? Btw., not sure if you missed it, but the saddle for that string is maxed out in the forward position … could the pup still have that much pull?

 

[WillyW]

Don't shitcan it, we can fix it…

 

[crossroadsnyc]

I hear ya, I'm kind of in the same boat. The guy around here that everybody recommends is ok, he can do set ups and all, but I've had to replace 2 nuts he made for me. The good that came from it is that it forced me to learn a new skill, after about 15 tries I can now make a proper nut. lol

Actually, I’d feel comfortable dropping off a guitar with you … you’ve shown some really nice work over the years!