For low volume tones ONLY, would the DSL20hr sound better than the DSL1hr?

[ch324434]

I'm in the market for a sub-500 dollar head to play through a 1x12 with a greenback in it. I'm looking at either a brand new DSL1, or a used DSL20.

Obviously the 20 watt is a better product, especially if you're turning the volume up. But what about bedroom volume only? That's where I'll be using this. I've heard people say the 1 watt is going to be thin and overly bright, but is that only when it's being cranked? Would the 20 watt still sound better at low volumes?

Thanks

 

[fitz]

I'm in the market for a sub-500 dollar head to play through a 1x12 with a greenback in it. I'm looking at either a brand new DSL1, or a used DSL20.

Obviously the 20 watt is a better product, especially if you're turning the volume up. But what about bedroom volume only? That's where I'll be using this. I've heard people say the 1 watt is going to be thin and overly bright, but is that only when it's being cranked? Would the 20 watt still sound better at low volumes?

Thanks

I've had both.
I'd take the 20 over the 1 any day, at any volume.
Don't be fooled thinking you could crank the 1w and not wake the neighbors - it's loud through a 12" speaker when you put the spurs to it.
Both amps can get drive tone on the Ultra (red) channel at low volume, but the 20 will sound fuller and thicker.
Master & Gain on the classic (green) channel with the 20 is a HUGE plus - crunch tones without high volume.
The 20 is also cathode biased, so you can run just about any octal based set of power tubes.
When you have the chance to open 'er up, power tube tone comes into play.
You're not limited to just EL34 variants, I ran anything from 6V6 to 6550's in my 20HR.

 

[m@rco]

I guess it depends on what you call low volume.
I run my dsl1cr with a JohnH attenuator to reach low volumes (65-70 dB). I doubt the dsl20 can get that quiet, but no first hand experience.

And I quite like my dsl1.

 

[cccc]

The current DSL1 doesn't compare to the awesome 50th anniversary 1 watt models , those things sound incredible but cost a fortune used .

 

[paul-e-mann]

I'm in the market for a sub-500 dollar head to play through a 1x12 with a greenback in it. I'm looking at either a brand new DSL1, or a used DSL20.

Obviously the 20 watt is a better product, especially if you're turning the volume up. But what about bedroom volume only? That's where I'll be using this. I've heard people say the 1 watt is going to be thin and overly bright, but is that only when it's being cranked? Would the 20 watt still sound better at low volumes?

Thanks

Get a DSL100HR for the best low volume, it just sounds bigger because it is bigger!

 

[PelliX]

I'd take the 20 over the 1 any day, at any volume.

This ^.

Don't be fooled thinking you could crank the 1w and not wake the neighbors - it's loud through a 12" speaker when you put the spurs to it.

And that ^. It's easy enough to attenuate either, though I wouldn't say it's really necessary for those amps.

Both amps can get drive tone on the Ultra (red) channel at low volume, but the 20 will sound fuller and thicker.
Master & Gain on the classic (green) channel with the 20 is a HUGE plus - crunch tones without high volume.

Nothing to add. This man speaks the truth.

The 20 is also cathode biased, so you can run just about any octal based set of power tubes.

Correct, though I believe the DSL20HR doesn't actually have a 4 Ohm tap, so you might end up mismatching impedance a little depending on what you throw in. Doesn't really matter, though - it'll be fine.

When you have the chance to open 'er up, power tube tone comes into play.
You're not limited to just EL34 variants, I ran anything from 6V6 to 6550's in my 20HR.

I've tried a few things in there and stand by the notion that by far *most* of the tone comes from the preamp in those amps. No harm in trying this out of course if you have the dosh to throw around!

Get a DSL100HR for the best low volume, it just sounds bigger because it is bigger!

Pull two output valves and it's not even any more expensive to re-tube than a 20 or 40, really. The 40 and the 100 have fixed bias that one can play with, too, as does the 1, I believe. There aren't many substitutes for the single output valve in the 1, though. I'd say the 100 is overkill, but they don't make a 40 head (only a combo), and the 100 can be switched to 50 (and/or you can pull two output valves), so it makes sense from that perspective.

 

[colchar]

I'm in the market for a sub-500 dollar head to play through a 1x12 with a greenback in it. I'm looking at either a brand new DSL1, or a used DSL20.

Obviously the 20 watt is a better product, especially if you're turning the volume up. But what about bedroom volume only? That's where I'll be using this. I've heard people say the 1 watt is going to be thin and overly bright, but is that only when it's being cranked? Would the 20 watt still sound better at low volumes?

Thanks

It took me a long time, and a lot of lower wattage amps, to realize it but bigger amps sound better at lower volumes than smaller amps do.

 

[colchar]

I guess it depends on what you call low volume.
I run my dsl1cr with a JohnH attenuator to reach low volumes (65-70 dB). I doubt the dsl20 can get that quiet, but no first hand experience.

And I quite like my dsl1.

If I can get my Orange AD30 (an insanely loud amp) down to TV volumes, that DSL20 can be easily tamed.

 

[Resident 217]

A Marshall 1 watt amp is like playing with a kitten, a 20 is like a cat , 50 w is like a tiger and 100watter is...well...the King of beasts. ROAR!

Currently I have a DSL 20 would rather have a 50 but prefer my 100 watt at any volume.

 

[SkyMonkey]

Having the Master Volumes is what makes the DSL40CR/100HR the best DSLs for low volumes.
The next best solution, and considerably cheaper, is a DSL20/5/1 with a JHS Little Black Amp Box in the FX loop.
A LBAB adds a basic Master Volume so you can use the Amp Gain to better effect at quiet volumes.
Also it removes the need to re-balance the Channel volumes when you do want to go a bit louder using the LBAB.
I use one on the board for my Non-MV Valvestate VS65R.

 

[PelliX]

Having the Master Volumes is what makes the DSL40CR/100HR the best DSLs for low volumes.

Exactly.

The next best solution, and considerably cheaper, is a DSL20/5/1 with a JHS Little Black Amp Box in the FX loop.

The DSL20 has per channel volume. Effectively it's two masters you can switch between.

 

[tallcoolone]

I'm in the market for a sub-500 dollar head to play through a 1x12 with a greenback in it. I'm looking at either a brand new DSL1, or a used DSL20.

I’d look around for a used Orange OR15–IMO a much better sounding amp. One channel and no loop tho

 

[fitz]

If we're suggesting non-Marshall alternatives to the DSL1 vs. 20, this is why I sold my 20HR (sold the 1 because of the 20):
2 identical channels that go from clean to mean - at any volume.
Way more tone options than a DSL and 40w of thump.

 

[paul-e-mann]

This ^.



And that ^. It's easy enough to attenuate either, though I wouldn't say it's really necessary for those amps.



Nothing to add. This man speaks the truth.



Correct, though I believe the DSL20HR doesn't actually have a 4 Ohm tap, so you might end up mismatching impedance a little depending on what you throw in. Doesn't really matter, though - it'll be fine.



I've tried a few things in there and stand by the notion that by far *most* of the tone comes from the preamp in those amps. No harm in trying this out of course if you have the dosh to throw around!



Pull two output valves and it's not even any more expensive to re-tube than a 20 or 40, really. The 40 and the 100 have fixed bias that one can play with, too, as does the 1, I believe. There aren't many substitutes for the single output valve in the 1, though. I'd say the 100 is overkill, but they don't make a 40 head (only a combo), and the 100 can be switched to 50 (and/or you can pull two output valves), so it makes sense from that perspective.

And dont forget a pair of 4x12's to go with it!

 

[fitz]

I believe the DSL20HR doesn't actually have a 4 Ohm tap, so you might end up mismatching impedance a little depending on what you throw in. Doesn't really matter, though - it'll be fine.

Hey, curious how output valves would change the impedance.
(Damnit Jim, I'm an accountant not an electrician...)
I've put big bottles in the 20 with the Eurotubes probes on - some get kinda voltage starved and don't work in their optimal range, but still offer some tonal variety.

 

[PelliX]

Hey, curious how output valves would change the impedance.

Well, this is one of those times when I brought something theoretical up that I actually shouldn't have, not because it was untrue, but because sometimes silence is golden

The logic is this; different types of valves (certainly if you start throwing anything pin compatible, more or less in a guitar amp) want a different impedance load to work with. KOhms vs Ohms. That's why you have to have an output transformer or VERY exotic speakers. Now, the ratio between the valves and the speaker load is obviously very different, and the differences between valve types all fall within a tight enough range for one not really have to worry about it for these applications. Despite saying that, somebody is going to read this and worry...

Consider that matching speaker loads to OT taps is gospel to us, but your average Joe Player has never cared for the last 60 years or more. Biasing to the mV was never a thing for decades. Twist the knob until it sounds right... check for red spots or smells, done.

(Damnit Jim, I'm an accountant not an electrician...)

Should have asked to be patched through to Scotty in the engine room.

I've put big bottles in the 20 with the Eurotubes probes on - some get kinda voltage starved and don't work in their optimal range, but still offer some tonal variety.

It's a shame Marshall don't publish any info on those transformers, as the available heater current would be good to know, too.

 

[SkyMonkey]

The DSL20 has per channel volume. Effectively it's two masters you can switch between.

The 40/100 amps have those too.
But you agree that the 40CR/100HR 'Masters' are the key to workable low volumes.
Only the 40/100 DSLs have those, hence the suggestion of a LBAB as MV for the smaller DSLs.

 

[hunglika12ay7]

Install one of these and reach A nirvana. Vintage EV SRO 12"

 

[ch324434]

I ended up grabbing a DSL1hr because I got a brand new one for under $300. If I don't like it, I'll try the 20.

 

[ch324434]

So I got the DSL1hr and I'm......pretty thrilled with it tbh. I wanted it for low volumes and it sounds pretty great through my greenback loaded 1x12.

I'm actually surprised that the .1W feature saved the day. I didn't think it would matter, but at 1W it was pretty thin and tinny sounding. The lower power setting sounds completely different at the volume I'm using.

I had a DSL40cr a while ago and this setup sounds 10x better for my application.