Going with 4 Greenback (G12 M's) for Clarity instead of 2 G12H's and 2 Greenbacks?

[BeatleBug72]

Greetings,
Wanted some advice on pairing my Les Paul Standard (498T Bridge / 496R Neck through a Marshall SV20) with 4 Greenbacks and getting rid of the two G12 H's. I just can't get that "Clear Grind" Page (Song Remains the Same Movie), Steve Jones Pistols (Bullocks - even though I have his Pick Ups, Townsend Live at Leeds (I'm getting an SG with P90's). I have changed the caps, I've changed the pick ups multiple times (had the classics that came with the LP, had the Slash Seymours, had ones similar to Page) and it dawned on me after researching quite a bit (as a novice), that speakers can make a profound difference. Therefore I have the following questions: 1. Would 4 Greenbacks be too treble, brittle sounding?
2. I've heard the 65 Greenbacks and they to me, in comparison to the G12 M's sound like they have a more bottom, darker, bassier tone.
3. The V Types in a comparison with the G12 M's sound like they have a blanket over them.
4. Creambacks sound slightly less clear (warmer?) than the G12's to me.
The deeper I go the more questions I have. The G12H's have a syrupy, thick, warm sound that (I think) causes the lack of clarity. I don't know......
Any suggestions / advice would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks,
Ben

 

[jeffb]

H30s definitely have a warmer, thick sound through the mids.

The 75hz lead cones have more high mids generally and tend towards a more bright tone.. pokey. However, fwiw Page used the 55hz (bass cones) H30s in at least a few of his cabs during Zeps heyday and around TSRTS live shows. 55hz have more extended lows and thick mids too but have a clarity or presence at the very top and are less "pokey" than the 75hz cones.

Page also used 9s, and a toppy bridge a5 pickup (late pat #) that I also use (clone). They will help get rid of that weird muddy nature in the bridge

I've a 55hz and a g12m 75hz mix in my 2x12. Going all g12ms may not help because IME, it's frequency overlap between the natural tone of a les paul, a2 pafs, and any classic g12M/G12 H. It's almost bordering on a cocked wah or tone rolled off vibe. I experience the same thing with my evh g12ms or a pair of 25 watt G12ms.

I've drifted away from low wind A2 pickups and back to low wind A5 because of that. 50s wiring and measured pots all above 500K help as well. If you've got an older standard with 300K pots, you are going to want to swap those. The caps are not nearly as mportant as the pot values. Also all the pickups you mentioned are know for thick, or even muddy by some peoples ears- tone/mids. The 49x set is notorious for that.

I'd try some low output pickups with a3 or a5 mags before spending more money on speakers.

 

[mAx___]

If you're using modern production Greenbacks, you will never get the same tone of those guys. Old Greenbacks with Pulsonic cones sound very different than what Celestion has been offering for several years now. They look the same, have the same names and specs but they don't sound like the old ones, at all.

 

[jeffp]

go with the 4 G12M’s or 4 G12H’s. Don’t mix em! just me

 

[BeatleBug72]

H30s definitely have a warmer, thick sound through the mids.

The 75hz lead cones have more high mids generally and tend towards a more bright tone.. pokey. However, fwiw Page used the 55hz (bass cones) H30s in at least a few of his cabs during Zeps heyday and around TSRTS live shows. 55hz have more extended lows and thick mids too but have a clarity or presence at the very top and are less "pokey" than the 75hz cones.

Page also used 9s, and a toppy bridge a5 pickup (late pat #) that I also use (clone). They will help get rid of that weird muddy nature in the bridge

I've a 55hz and a g12m 75hz mix in my 2x12. Going all g12ms may not help because IME, it's frequency overlap between the natural tone of a les paul, a2 pafs, and any classic g12M/G12 H. It's almost bordering on a cocked wah or tone rolled off vibe. I experience the same thing with my evh g12ms or a pair of 25 watt G12ms.

I've drifted away from low wind A2 pickups and back to low wind A5 because of that. 50s wiring and measured pots all above 500K help as well. If you've got an older standard with 300K pots, you are going to want to swap those. The caps are not nearly as mportant as the pot values. Also all the pickups you mentioned are know for thick, or even muddy by some peoples ears- tone/mids. The 49x set is notorious for that.

I'd try some low output pickups with a3 or a5 mags before spending more money on speakers.

Thank You,
I will definitely look into everything you said - for pickups with a3 or a5 mags what would you suggest?

 

[79 2203]

Agree with mAx that you’ll struggle to nail specific vintage tones with reissue Greenbacks and not Pulsonics, but if you have no option but reissues, I agree with jeffp that you’re better off with one or the other(H or M)rather than a mix. It allows you to zero in on what you like/don’t like rather than second guessing yourself due to the speaker mix.
Speaker mixing is a modern technique, and just like other modern techniques (channel patching on a Plexi for example) it can take you further away from your vintage goals.

In any case, regardless of what Greenback you use, I think the tones you’re after are in the amp(in the ballpark at least) and the issues you describe are something that can be mostly solved with the amp EQ.

I’ve had my stock 71 1987 for about 4 years now and am constantly finding new tones it’s capable of just by radically changing the EQ, especially the Mid control.

 

[Matthews Guitars]

I'm looking for some H30s as a matter of fact. I specifically want a 4x12 that has two GBs and two H30s.