Help Me Identify/validate - Model 1972 2x12 With Pre-rola Pulsonics

[fronobulax]

I picked this up recently at the Orlando guitar show and want to see if the experts here can validate what the seller claimed. He seemed like an honest, good guy, but I always like to get a second opinion.

Anyway, my understanding is that this is a model 1972 Lead & Organ 2x12 built in about 1968-1969 that maybe was intended to be an extension cabinet to the earlier Bluesbreaker combo. THe speakers are pre-Rola Celestions marked T1511 and with cone codes of 32 102 014, which I understand to mean 55Hz Pulsonics.

The seller said the Marshall logo is original (it's in good shape) as are all the screws.

Here are a bunch of pictures. Any comments as to originality, rarity, value, etc. are much appreciated. I paid a lot, so hopefully it's all valid.

 

[Glide]

CB would be a 69 I believe.

http://www.bygonetones.com/celestion-date-codes.html

http://www.bygonetones.com/fake-pre-rolas.html

 

[kuli]

Looks authentic to me - really nice cab I think, great score, these are very rare I guess.

 

[BygoneTones]

Looks like a nice cab, but there are no 2x12's like this in any of the old Marshall catalogues. Could be a converted 1x18 (model 1988) or maybe a custom order. What are the exterior dimensions? I've got a 1988 cab here right now that Im converting to a 2x12 so I can confirm the dimensions for you. Also the white piping install looks a bit crap at the corners by Marshall standards in my opinion. Check the logo is original and not a repro by looking at the pins at the back. If they go to a point they are repro. Be very careful not to break it when removing it. Originals are fragile and valuable, and maybe glued in.

The speakers themselves are legit Celestions, dated March and April 69, but they are only valuable if they are in mint working condition when tested properly. Anything but perfect working condition and they are not valuable speakers in my opinion. Always make sure of this before forking out big money for old celestions, few sellers bother to check and will just ask top dollar regardless. About 90% of vintage speakers out there are not worth the prices people are asking.

 

[BygoneTones]

Fwiw the '1972' model 2x12 is very similar in style to the 1936 cab and 2045 cab in the catalogue (speakers horizontal, not vertical). Same dimensions as a bluesbreaker combo I guess, then it would sit nicely underneath as an extension cab. I have never seen one, in photos online or in person, they are uber rare if they exist.

 

[metromutt]

Congratulations, that's a rare cab!
It is indeed the 1972 model but the vertical version from '68 to '69. The (1972) horizontal cab was an extension cab for the combo and would of had pinstripe cloth date '66-'67.
I've only ever seen one before and it was mint on this very forum.
Should be worth a bit if the speakers are ok, it's just the right width for a smallbox 50 so that would be a neat set up.

 

[BygoneTones]

Wow my mistake. The 1972 cab I was referring to is on page 193 of the doyle book.

Even worse the 2x12 Im making has offset speaker holes, I guess I should have done it vertical like that one to be correct. doh, never mind.

 

[fronobulax]

Thanks all for the replies!

Curious, BygoneTones, how might I go about properly testing the speakers? I assume this is something a pro with the right equipment needs to do?

FWIW, the speakers sound fantastic, which is why I bought it.

 

[BygoneTones]

Curious, BygoneTones, how might I go about properly testing the speakers? I assume this is something a pro with the right equipment needs to do?

FWIW, the speakers sound fantastic, which is why I bought it.

Not at all, the fundamental checks are done with your bare hands, eyes and ears. A tone generator is definitely useful for more advanced testing, but is not essential.

If the cab genuinely sounds fantastic and you have had it up to stage volume with enough power going into them then there should be no problems. However at bedroom volume there is not enough power going into them and the cones wont be moving enough to hear any issues.

Search my old posts on here as I write this stuff in almost every forum post thesedays. First just get them out of the cab (carefully, and without damaging the wiring if its original) and just have a good look at them for any issues (cone tears, bits falling off, etc). Normally I clean all the dust off the cones at that point too with a soft brush.

The main 2 checks are just to check that the spider support is glued down properly, and to check for coil rub. All of this can be done with you bare hands, eyes and ears. Use your finger tip to check the edge of the spider support is glued down fully all the way around. Then with the speaker on its back, press lightly around the edge of the cone to check for any coil rubbing or scraping noises. A lot of speakers will fail these basic checks.

If you isolate any bad speaker/s you find and play through them individually you will find them to be buzzy or rattling with any kind of volume.

 

[soundboy57]

I know who the seller was. He had two of these, and offered them to me for $7000 for the pair.

I passed

Cool cabs though

 

[SG~GUY]

-looks awesome!!!... But I'm a skeptic at heart, no disrespect fronobulax,

-67/BYGONE & anyone else in the know-

-I've never seen the inside of a MARSHALL, or any manufacturers cab look that clean & perfect inside, almost looks like its been sanded. They grill cloth has even been trimmed!

-are those screw's or rivets on the handles?

 

[soundboy57]

The cab is legit, no doubt, and they do sound great, from what I have heard. Johan demos a head with one of them in a video.

Yes, the old cabs looked nice inside, with trimmed grill cloth, etc.
They used nicer plywood back in the 60s-70s, too. They only started looking messy in the 90s when they started
spraying black glue everywhere, instead of applying the tolex glue by hand.

The handles used screws and T nuts until 1970-1971, when they went to rivets. They went to regular wood screws at some point, I think early 80s. My 78 cab still has rivets.

Here are pics of my 67 and 71 cabs, for example. Pretty smooth and clean inside.

 

[metromutt]

Thanks Soundboy for the heads up to Johan's demo, managed to find it...


The 1972 cab is at 6.38.

Interesting to note these are T1221's in the vid, I think the guy who came here some years back had 25w T1221's in his? I guess marshall did wander with what was available to hand at the time!

Have to say the 1x18 sounded really boxey and hollow compared to the sweet, edgy sound from the 2x12, good move Bygone T with the switch to 2x12 on that 1x18 conversion.

 

[Kris Ford]

The cab is legit, no doubt, and they do sound great, from what I have heard. Johan demos a head with one of them in a video.

Yes, the old cabs looked nice inside, with trimmed grill cloth, etc.
They used nicer plywood back in the 60s-70s, too. They only started looking messy in the 90s when they started
spraying black glue everywhere, instead of applying the tolex glue by hand.

The handles used screws and T nuts until 1970-1971, when they went to rivets. They went to regular wood screws at some point, I think early 80s. My 78 cab still has rivets.

Here are pics of my 67 and 71 cabs, for example. Pretty smooth and clean inside.

Clean in '76:

Still clean and smooth for '77-8:

 

[BygoneTones]

The 1972 cab is at 6.38.

Interesting to note these are T1221's in the vid, I think the guy who came here some years back had 25w T1221's in his? I guess marshall did wander with what was available to hand at the time!

Have to say the 1x18 sounded really boxey and hollow compared to the sweet, edgy sound from the 2x12, good move Bygone T with the switch to 2x12 on that 1x18 conversion.

Ah yes, I remember watching that video when he posted it here and thinking the 2x12 was one of my favourites in that vid. Those 2x12's must be pretty rare cabs, dont see many of them around.

Heres my work in progress shot:

The baffle was made by Chris Uff, great workmanship. Still needs a bit of tweaking so I can fit a logo on there, then Im just waiting for my eric collins grill to arrive from the US.

My plan is to sell it as 100% original from 1966, asking price - 1 million dollars.

 

[metromutt]

Very nice, shame about the offset, Chris does great stuff and a good service too. What are the holes on top for? didn't see those in the original auction.
Think the asking price fits in with marshalls valuation and they're always on the money GLWTS

 

[BygoneTones]

They are not holes, just some shallow indentations someone has put in the top, Im guessing for the amp feet to sit in. I was going to colour them in black, but decided to leave them be for now.

It was fairly abused, but after a good clean and glueing the torn tolex back down it doesnt look too bad now.

 

[Kris Ford]

Ah yes, I remember watching that video when he posted it here and thinking the 2x12 was one of my favourites in that vid. Those 2x12's must be pretty rare cabs, dont see many of them around.

Heres my work in progress shot:

The baffle was made by Chris Uff, great workmanship. Still needs a bit of tweaking so I can fit a logo on there, then Im just waiting for my eric collins grill to arrive from the US.

My plan is to sell it as 100% original from 1966, asking price - 1 million dollars.

Be sure to fill a salt shaker with dirt and sprinkle in the corners, smoke cigs all over it, dump some beer on it and kick it around the lot a bit first!

 

[BygoneTones]

Be sure to fill a salt shaker with dirt and sprinkle in the corners, smoke cigs all over it, dump some beer on it and kick it around the lot a bit first!

Well that goes without saying of course. I will also make sure to poke a guitar headstock through the grill then I can say it was owned by Pete Townsend, and include a "letter of authenticity" produced on a typewriter backing it up.