Heritage Greenback 12M in DSL20CR

[Ramblinrose2]

The Heritage 12M Greenback speaker is rated at only 20 watts. And the Marshall DSL20CR is a 20 watt amp. Will this Greenback work in this amp? If not are there any other Heritage Greenback speakers that will Work in the amp? Thanks for your input

 

[fitz]

The Heritage 12M Greenback speaker is rated at only 20 watts. And the Marshall DSL20CR is a 20 watt amp. Will this Greenback work in this amp? If not are there any other Heritage Greenback speakers that will Work in the amp? Thanks for your input

to the forum.
Yes, it will "work", but as you are aware, the 20w speaker is rated at the output of the amp.
Speaker power handling ratings are conservatively low, but tube amps can also put out well above their rated watts.

If you plan on using the amp at low volume or on 10w mode, you should be fine.
If you plan on cranking the amp on a regular basis (I love crankin' mine...), or hitting the front end with a boost pedal (I do that too...), you may be pushing your luck.
It's not a failsafe pairing, a regular 25w greenback would be better.

A common rule of thumb that I've heard is total speaker power handling ratings should be around 150% of a tube amp's rated output - so look for about 30w for a DSL20.
There are many other speakers that can provide a better tone than the stock Seventy-80.
I am currently using a pair of G12H-30 Anniversary (not the 55Hz ones) for my DSL20HR and love the tone.

 

[Maggot Brain]

While speakers are generally conservative on power handling, amps are generally rated by "clean" output, pushing the amp into power amp distortion generally takes the power above the "rated power". I am not sure how accurate that is with most modern amps but I imagine it still applies to a degree.

Yes you can use that speaker BUT you have to take care when setting the amp to high volume output. You can usually hear when a speaker is being over powered and it will start struggling to produce a clean/clear sound. Generally a speaker being over taxed will distort more than is pleasent and flub/fart out.

I'd say go for it as that combo would probably sound great. Just take care when setting the volume high while in full power mode, don't dime the volume or run it anywhere near max just to he safe.

A 30w speaker would be a better "match" for power handling.

 

[Ramblinrose2]

While speakers are generally conservative on power handling, amps are generally rated by "clean" output, pushing the amp into power amp distortion generally takes the power above the "rated power". I am not sure how accurate that is with most modern amps but I imagine it still applies to a degree.

Yes you can use that speaker BUT you have to take care when setting the amp to high volume output. You can usually hear when a speaker is being over powered and it will start struggling to produce a clean/clear sound. Generally a speaker being over taxed will distort more than is pleasent and flub/fart out.

I'd say go for it as that combo would probably sound great. Just take care when setting the volume high while in full power mode, don't dime the volume or run it anywhere near max just to he safe.

A 30w speaker would be a better "match" for power handling.

Guys, thanks for the replies, much appreciated.
To provide a little context, I am a songwriter/producer with a small home recording studio in the Austin TX area. I play bass and keys. So not a guitar player myself, but I partner with others that handle that part of things. I am older, so basically like the 60's and 70's classic rock tones and songs. Have mostly Fender amps, Princeton, Champs etc. But feel that I need a Marshall tone for songs that require that edge and vibe. So I was at a used instrument store, Music Go Round and saw the DSL20CR there, at a good price. Had tried pedals to get that heavier rock tone, with unimpressive results. So figured I would get the small Marshall amp and try it. I have neighbor issues at my studio so can't really get a bigger Marshall amp, and I also got the JHS attenuator for these same reasons. I am cognizant that you can only get the true Marshall sound with the large amps cranked. But just want to add somewhat of that color to the available palette of sounds, as I write songs that are all over the map. Some which would benefit from that Jimmy Page, Joe Walsh, Hendrix sound. Not a fan of high gain, or even higher gain, probably top out at Van Halen, ZZ Top tones.

So trying to just do what I can with this amp. To provide additional colors. As I don't play guitar myself, I suppose that I have to be more careful about the wattage issues, as a player can get inspired and push things too far. Just thought that the Heritage was a better match to my tonal sensibilities.

 

[FutureProf88]

You might look at a G12H30. That’s a 30 watt greenback that would have a little bit tighter low end and would give you more power handling.

 

[Maggot Brain]

Guys, thanks for the replies, much appreciated.
To provide a little context, I am a songwriter/producer with a small home recording studio in the Austin TX area. I play bass and keys. So not a guitar player myself, but I partner with others that handle that part of things. I am older, so basically like the 60's and 70's classic rock tones and songs. Have mostly Fender amps, Princeton, Champs etc. But feel that I need a Marshall tone for songs that require that edge and vibe. So I was at a used instrument store, Music Go Round and saw the DSL20CR there, at a good price. Had tried pedals to get that heavier rock tone, with unimpressive results. So figured I would get the small Marshall amp and try it. I have neighbor issues at my studio so can't really get a bigger Marshall amp, and I also got the JHS attenuator for these same reasons. I am cognizant that you can only get the true Marshall sound with the large amps cranked. But just want to add somewhat of that color to the available palette of sounds, as I write songs that are all over the map. Some which would benefit from that Jimmy Page, Joe Walsh, Hendrix sound. Not a fan of high gain, or even higher gain, probably top out at Van Halen, ZZ Top tones.

So trying to just do what I can with this amp. To provide additional colors. As I don't play guitar myself, I suppose that I have to be more careful about the wattage issues, as a player can get inspired and push things too far. Just thought that the Heritage was a better match to my tonal sensibilities.

Get a 65w version of the Scumback M75-PVC... Best of both worlds, vintage Greenback flavor and more than adequate power handling for practicality.

Scumback Speakers

 

[Mitchell Pearrow]

@Ramblinrose2

To The Forum
As others have said be careful on how much you push the amp. I know that at times can be difficult but it will save your speaker.

Cheers
Mitch

 

[chocol8]

The "20 watt" heritage greenback is not really a 20 watt speaker. It was simply labeled that way for marketing purposes because it is supposed to sound like a 1965-67 greenback that was originally rated at 20 watts. I don't know what the actual power handling for that speaker is, but I have fed mine north of 30 watts each and they haven't died yet.

That said, if you want the sound of a early greenback, I would second the advice of the Scumback M75-PVC (65 watt version) which will sound much closer and also offer piece of mind on the power handling. They are not much more expensive than the Celestions and absolutely worth it in my opinion (I own both).

 

[Ramblinrose2]

The "20 watt" heritage greenback is not really a 20 watt speaker. It was simply labeled that way for marketing purposes because it is supposed to sound like a 1965-67 greenback that was originally rated at 20 watts. I don't know what the actual power handling for that speaker is, but I have fed mine north of 30 watts each and they haven't died yet.

That said, if you want the sound of a early greenback, I would second the advice of the Scumback M75-PVC (65 watt version) which will sound much closer and also offer piece of mind on the power handling. They are not much more expensive than the Celestions and absolutely worth it in my opinion (I own both).

Guys, thanks for all the valuable feedback, much appreciated. Will check out the Scumbacks

 

[Ramblinrose2]

Guys, thanks for all the valuable feedback, much appreciated. Will check out the Scumbacks

Listened to some comparisons, those pre-Rolla Greenbacks sure sound nice. Looks like they would cost more than the amp itself, assuming you can even find them.

 

[Moony]

Try a WGS Invader (50 Watts).
Greenback'ish sound with a bit more low end, less shrill high end and a nice midrange snarl.
Works really nice with Marshall style amps.

 

[Ramblinrose2]

Try a WGS Invader (50 Watts).
Greenback'ish sound with a bit more low end, less shrill high end and a nice midrange snarl.
Works really nice with Marshall style amps.

thanks for the input, much appreciated

 

[solarburn]

The Heritage 12M Greenback speaker is rated at only 20 watts. And the Marshall DSL20CR is a 20 watt amp. Will this Greenback work in this amp? If not are there any other Heritage Greenback speakers that will Work in the amp? Thanks for your input

I've got a 5153 412 loaded with the 20 watt gb's and thoroughly beat the fuk out of them with 100 watt Plexi, 2203 and 120 watt Marshall 900 clone/150 watt Plexi clone.

I don't believe in luck. The speakers hold. Don't recommend popping speakers but mine have been assaulted with power beyond rated.

I think for sure you'll be fine in your 20 watt DSL. It will sound stellar. Mine do.

I bet a 12H Anniversary(30 watts)would sound excellent as well.

 

[Ramblinrose2]

I've got a 5153 412 loaded with the 20 watt gb's and thoroughly beat the fuk out of them with 100 watt Plexi, 2203 and 120 watt Marshall 900 clone/150 watt Plexi clone.

I don't believe in luck. The speakers hold. Don't recommend popping speakers but mine have been assaulted with power beyond rated.

I think for sure you'll be fine in your 20 watt DSL. It will sound stellar. Mine do.

I bet a 12H Anniversary(30 watts)would sound excellent as well.

Thanks for the input.

 

[solarburn]

Thanks for the input.

Just to let you know I have a few cabs so I'm not worried about blowing speakers. With the big iron amps I have I ride the line to get that great vintage tone/feel. Plus I can replace and wire speakers in. Was really shocked those 20 watt gb's take all that. Thought I'd be tweaking speaker mixes to handle wattage. Hasn't happened yet but I'm ready if it does.

Look forward to what you settle on. Definitely got good taste!

 

[Ramblinrose2]

Try a WGS Invader (50 Watts).
Greenback'ish sound with a bit more low end, less shrill high end and a nice midrange snarl.
Works really nice with Marshall style amps.

Moony,

The Invader sounded pretty vintage in one of the sound comparisons I watched on YouTube. So its definitely a consideration. I guess a lot of it also depends on how the speaker jells with the cabinet. So you guys have given me lots to think about. This thread has been very informative. I can see why people audition lots of speakers to find the ONE. Hopefully I will get there soon.

 

[Moony]

I guess a lot of it also depends on how the speaker jells with the cabinet.

When I had the old Blackstar HT-20 combo (the one with the EL34 poweramp) I tried a lot of speakers and the Invader 50 was the best.
It didn't work with the HT-5R MKII because the cab was a bit too small (about the same size as the DSL5C).
In the JVM215C it sounded really good.
I think the DSL20CR is big enough.

And yes the Invader has a "vintage" flavor in the sense that it doesn't sound harsh or shrill right out of the box. I think it would be a good choice for the DSL20 because there are complaints that this particular amp is a bit to "spikey" sounding. You could also tame it by doing some minor modifications to the schematic.
The speaker however is the last part in your sound "chain" and therefore has a big impact on the overall sound.

I personally would go with an WGS Invader or a Celestion Creamback 65.

 

[Ramblinrose2]

When I had the old Blackstar HT-20 combo (the one with the EL34 poweramp) I tried a lot of speakers and the Invader 50 was the best.
It doesn't worked with the HT-5R MKII because the cab was a bit too small (about the same size as the DSL5C).
In the JVM215C it sounded really good.
I think the DSL20CR is big enough.

And yes the Invader has a "vintage" flavor in the sense that it doesn't sound harsh or shrill right out of the box. I think it would be a good choice for the DSL20 because there are complaints that this particular amp is a bit to "spikey" sounding. You could also tame it by doing some minor modifications to the schematic.
The speaker however is the last part in your sound "chain" and therefore has a big impact on the overall sound.

I personally would go with an WGS Invader or a Celestion Creamback 65.

Cool, I'm gonna look more into it. When I finally get my new speaker installed maybe I'll post a new song to this thread using it. We are currently working on a song that could use some Joe Walsh attitude from the guitar track. That was one of my main reasons to get the amp. We have the parts worked out, just not the right attitude and tone. Although I love the Princeton and Champs kicking' ass is not their forte.

 

[scozz]

Creamback 65

 

[Ramblinrose2]

Creamback 65

So I ordered the WGS Invader 50. Will report back on my impressions when I get it up and going. Just liked it the best in the different sound comparisons I heard on YouTube. I'll see how it is in the flesh in the DSL20CR. Guess you never know until then. Creamback 65 was the other main contender. Seems to get almost universal thumbs up here. Will probably try that next if the Invader doesn't do the trick.

Thanks for everyone's feedback. This is a great forum to get quick, well-informed input.

Cheers,

Ron