KK JCM 800 - How to get a volume boost?

[gmanpdx]

I need some help. I just purchased the above Kerry King JCM 800. I am in a metal band and need a volume boost for leads.

I tried a Boosta Granda pedal - supposed to give 20db of clean boost, I tried a Boss Metal Zone distortion pedal hoping the level function would help, I tried a boss equalizer thinking the level would give me a little boost (it does on other Marshall heads) - but all the above did nothing?

(there is no effects loop on the JCm 800 so these are plugged into the front input).

Why is this or more importantly - how can I get the boost I need? Thanks in advance!

 

[BluesRocker]

I thought the Kerry King model had a series FX loop?

 

[Murmel]

I thought the Kerry King model had a series FX loop?

No it doesn't. The regular JCM 800 reissue has, as well as the Zakk signature.

I am afraid there ist no easy solution to this question.

 

[PaoloJM]

I need some help. I just purchased the above Kerry King JCM 800. I am in a metal band and need a volume boost for leads.

I tried a Boosta Granda pedal - supposed to give 20db of clean boost, I tried a Boss Metal Zone distortion pedal hoping the level function would help, I tried a boss equalizer thinking the level would give me a little boost (it does on other Marshall heads) - but all the above did nothing?

(there is no effects loop on the JCm 800 so these are plugged into the front input).

Why is this or more importantly - how can I get the boost I need? Thanks in advance!

This has been discussed in another thread with much incorrect information being offered.

There are only three real solutions for this problem.

1. Have a FX Loop installed and put an EQ or boost there.
2. Have a footswitchable second master volume fitted.
3. Buy an amp with an FX Loop or second footswitchable master.

Other options are things like running the amp cleaner and using a boost or dialing the boost to really cut in the upper midz.
Neither works very well and involve compromising your tone.

 

[gmanpdx]

Thank you everyone for the feedback. The solutions right no look to be major -

has anyone tried to use a Dunlop - BOOST/LINEDRIVER

I see some have claimed this to work even with the preamp maxed out?

 

[PaoloJM]

Thank you everyone for the feedback. The solutions right no look to be major -

has anyone tried to use a Dunlop - BOOST/LINEDRIVER

I see some have claimed this to work even with the preamp maxed out?

Nothing can yield any more volume from an already maxed out over-driven preamp. You need to boost signal to the power amp to gain any more volume which involved and FX Loop or second master volume.

Don't mean to sound like a dick but anyone who says otherwise is plain wrong.

 

[gmanpdx]

Nothing can yield any more volume from an already maxed out over-driven preamp. You need to boost signal to the power amp to gain any more volume which involved and FX Loop or second master volume.

Don't mean to sound like a dick but anyone who says otherwise is plain wrong.

I appreciate the straight up advice - I got to figure this out and this could save me time.

 

[ironlung40]

Footswitchable attenuator would work, and for less money than a new amp, and with no mods to your current amp.

just set your volume on your amp for your lead level with the attenuator off, then attenuate the amp back to your rhythm level with it on. This is usually a small amount anyway, so you'd be using very little attenuation.......then when you switch the attenuator on/off you get lead boosts!

Weber is the first one that pops to mind for footswitchable attenuation. This was also discussed in the topic Paolo speaks of above.

 

[gmanpdx]

Footswitchable attenuator would work, and for less money than a new amp, and with no mods to your current amp.

just set your volume on your amp for your lead level with the attenuator off, then attenuate the amp back to your rhythm level with it on. This is usually a small amount anyway, so you'd be using very little attenuation.......then when you switch the attenuator on/off you get lead boosts!

Weber is the first one that pops to mind for footswitchable attenuation. This was also discussed in the topic Paolo speaks of above.

Thanks so much...am researching now

 

[ironlung40]

Thanks so much...am researching now

No problem, but I cannot take credit for this idea, as I first heard from other members of this forum and the Vintage Modern forum. But, useful info is free for passing along in here.

Good luck with it, let us know if you do indeed go the attenuator route.

 

[NewReligion]

I need some help. I just purchased the above Kerry King JCM 800. I am in a metal band and need a volume boost for leads.

I tried a Boosta Granda pedal - supposed to give 20db of clean boost, I tried a Boss Metal Zone distortion pedal hoping the level function would help, I tried a boss equalizer thinking the level would give me a little boost (it does on other Marshall heads) - but all the above did nothing?

(there is no effects loop on the JCm 800 so these are plugged into the front input).

Why is this or more importantly - how can I get the boost I need? Thanks in advance!

I sent you a PM.

D.

 

[gmanpdx]

No problem, but I cannot take credit for this idea, as I first heard from other members of this forum and the Vintage Modern forum. But, useful info is free for passing along in here.

Good luck with it, let us know if you do indeed go the attenuator route.

For those of you following this thread...I got this today from the Marshall factory: I have not tried it. Thank you again for all the help everyone!



You can use a distortion or overdrive pedal and set the gain to zero and the volume so it is less than your bypassed signal. When you turn it off, you will hear an increase in volume. I believe some companies even just make a volume pot in a stompbox so you can do the same thing I described without coloring the sound. Alternatively, you can control your volume with the volume on your guitar.

 

[PaoloJM]

For those of you following this thread...I got this today from the Marshall factory: I have not tried it. Thank you again for all the help everyone!



You can use a distortion or overdrive pedal and set the gain to zero and the volume so it is less than your bypassed signal. When you turn it off, you will hear an increase in volume. I believe some companies even just make a volume pot in a stompbox so you can do the same thing I described without coloring the sound. Alternatively, you can control your volume with the volume on your guitar.

This information is completely incorrect. If Marshall told you that then they are full of sh*t.

Reducing the input level to a maxed out preamp simply reduces the gain level, altering your tone and doing little to nothing volume wise. Try it and report back your results so that other people don't have to waste time with crappy information like that..

 

[ironlung40]

This information is completely incorrect. If Marshall told you that then they are full of sh*t.

Reducing the input level to a maxed out preamp simply reduces the gain level, altering your tone and doing little to nothing volume wise. Try it and report back your results so that other people don't have to waste time with crappy information like that..

+ a million....and a big here we go again....

anyway, to the original poster....you can try this with your guitar.

set your amp up like you would normally play it..........set your guitar volume to 5......riff some.....now roll it to 10......solo some........if this is what you're after then a volume pedal would be doing a very similar function. But, I'm betting you're not liking the rhythm tone at 5 on your guitar and then the different sounding lead while it is on 10.....

If marshall told you that, then they really are mistaken.

 

[spacerocker]

Wow! it's like "Groundhog Day" on here, isn't it? !!!

 

[Jonathan Wilder]

Yes it is once again.

Paolo is 100% correct. Anyone who tells you that you can coax more volume from an already overdriven preamp via boosting its front end is full of shit. It's overdriven...the sine wave cannot swing any higher...it just clips more...and even more when you boost the front end...it CANNOT SWING ANY HIGHER!!! If it cannot swing any higher the only thing you're going to "boost" is how much the signal cannot swing any higher (i.e. how much it's getting clipped). And if it cannot swing any higher you're not going to boost volume because your headroom is maxed out (i.e. it cannot swing any higher). And I could give a fuck less who thinks I'm a dick for saying that...it's plain wrong, it compromises your tone, the method has got the word "tradeoff" written all over it and these guys fucking know it. And anyone who believes it works with no unacceptable compromises in tone/feel makes it clearly evident that they have absolutely no knowledge of proper gain structure and signal path management.

The guys who tell you this have one goal in mind...do everything the absolute cheapest possible way no matter what compromise in tone you have to suffer as a result. Well most of us don't think in this fashion. This is what I've been saying all along...there IS in fact a right and a wrong way (OK fine...a most and a least "ideal" way ) to go about accomplishing a task and this is a perfect example of such.

So all that being said...you have to boost at the OUTPUT of the preamp...between the preamp out and the power amp in...to get any sort of volume boost. You can do it either via a boost pedal in the FX loop which your amp does not have, or you can add a pot in series with the grounded leg of the master volume and rig up a footswitch jack across the pot. The pot will allow you to adjust how much you want the volume to increase when you step on the switch.

When firefighters need more water flow, do they boost the pressure at the hydrant? No...it's already maxed out! They open the bail more at the other end of the hose. That's exactly what you're doing when you do the "lift the master with a 2nd pot" trick. Trying to boost volume via boosting the front end would be like trying to shove more water down a hose than it can flow. Only the pressure increases...but the flow doesn't increase by a desirable amount because it's already flowing its max.

 

[Wycked Lester]

The guys who tell you this have one goal in mind...do everything the absolute cheapest possible way no matter what compromise in tone you have to suffer as a result. Well most of us don't think in this fashion. This is what I've been saying all along...there IS in fact a right and a wrong way (OK fine...a most and a least "ideal" way ) to go about accomplishing a task and this is a perfect example of such.

.

+1000

....ain't it gross.

 

[Jonathan Wilder]

+1000

....ain't it gross.

I understand some are limited financially, and that's OK. You're not any less of a person for being in that situation. But if you're forced to go cheap, realize the limitations of your setup...don't make people think that they can get "the ultimate rig" for just under $200.

 

[PaoloJM]

The guys who tell you this have one goal in mind...do everything the absolute cheapest possible way no matter what compromise in tone you have to suffer as a result. Well most of us don't think in this fashion. This is what I've been saying all along...there IS in fact a right and a wrong way (OK fine...a most and a least "ideal" way ) to go about accomplishing a task and this is a perfect example of such.

IMO it's completely different tone, not just a compromise.

It must be so difficult for a non technically beginner to find the tone they want.
There's such an amount of utter bullshit being pedalled as fact by all sorts of idiots, some working for large well know amplifier manufacturers , it must be very difficult to see the wood from the trees.

Luckily these people are not working in the medical profession.

Imagine going to the doctor and saying "I've a pain in my stomach" and getting "we'll need to amputate your leg" as an answer!!

 

[Jonathan Wilder]

Imagine going to the doctor and saying "I've a pain in my stomach" and getting "we'll need to amputate your leg" as an answer!!

"Well how did you come to that conclusion doc?"

"Eh....read it on the internet from some doctors who've practiced on some big name people."

The other issue is that a lot of manufacturers are bad at how they label certain controls. Until you can read a schematic and see where in the circuit that control is you never REALLY know for sure exactly what it does and you're forced to go off of what they label the control as. Take for instance the "Volume" parameter on the JMP-1 preamp. Most people think they adjust their perceivable volume from there when in reality that control is just upstream of the FX loop and will have a direct effect on the front end signal of your loop effects. In that situation it's best to run all your lead presets with that parameter full up while bring it down a couple notches for your rhythm settings, then control your perceivable volume with the "Output Level" control. The way they labeled that shit has people thinking WAY backwards on that whole setup.