Kossoff Tone from JMP Mark 2

[TheMullerFan]

The tone Paul Kossoff gets from his Marshall is my favourite ever. I'd love to be able to get his 1970 live tone. Can it be done? I only have a stock 1980 JMP Mark 2 2203 with a G12H 30 cab to work with. It's not getting the smoothest drive at the moment. Should I just get it serviced or should i also change caps or somethig like that? I don't plan on butchering the amp though.

 

[Gtarzan81]

Legend has it he used SuperBass heads at some point. That may help.

 

[plexilespaul]

he used SuperBass heads

+1
i think the basic difference in tone from the superbass as opposed to a superlead is the shared cathode giving the superbass less treble and top end. the 2203 is a superlead with a mastervolume and a cascaded preamp. i think with NOS tubes you can nail kossof with less treble from your guitar. of course you will need his fingers too.

 

[SoloDallas]

It's not a matter of fingers.
I agree about the NOST tubes but mostly, you need G12Ms, not G12H30s.
I too have both, but for Kossoff's tone it's a must to have the G12Ms. Possibly vintage.
Also, you want a basket wave grill cloth, which is an equalizer in itself.
I'll be reviewing all of this at solodallas soon, for now I am heavily involved into Young's (AC/DC) tone.

Good luck!

 

[SoloDallas]

There seems to be a rather technical thread right here: good info.

http://www.marshallforum.com/marshall-amps/14860-paul-kossof.html

 

[Axis]

Paul used Marshall Majors
Here he is in 1970:
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uvEpqlbjcI4]YouTube - Free playing Mr Big Isle of Wight 1970[/ame]

There's an excellent dvd called Free forever with
almost all their TV appearences.Marshall Major is in
all of them.

A master volume Marshall isn't going to get this sound.
A Major or one of the 1987 or 1959 would get closer.

 

[Marshallhead]

Paul used Marshall Majors
Here he is in 1970:
YouTube - Free playing Mr Big Isle of Wight 1970

There's an excellent dvd called Free forever with
almost all their TV appearences.Marshall Major is in
all of them.

A master volume Marshall isn't going to get this sound.
A Major or one of the 1987 or 1959 would get closer.

I don't think any of the Free Forever clips have Majors in them. They all look like 100 watters to me, many of them 8 input Super PAs and one of them (in the Doing Their Thing) clips is a 45/100. Unless I just didn't look closely enough! Exactly which clips have the Majors?

 

[peterichardz]

I don't think any of the Free Forever clips have Majors in them. They all look like 100 watters to me, many of them 8 input Super PAs and one of them (in the Doing Their Thing) clips is a 45/100. Unless I just didn't look closely enough! Exactly which clips have the Majors?

If you look at the 2nd from the left full stack on Pauls side, you will see a Major head. It's 2" deeper than a standard 100 watt head, but all the other's look like 1959's or super pa's.

 

[NewReligion]

Paul used Marshall Majors
Here he is in 1970:
YouTube - Free playing Mr Big Isle of Wight 1970

There's an excellent dvd called Free forever with
almost all their TV appearences.Marshall Major is in
all of them.

A master volume Marshall isn't going to get this sound.
A Major or one of the 1987 or 1959 would get closer.

Damn that sounds great! I need another Plexi. Real Tone.

David

 

[Marshallhead]

If you look at the 2nd from the left full stack on Pauls side, you will see a Major head. It's 2" deeper than a standard 100 watt head, but all the other's look like 1959's or super pa's.

You mean on that Isle of Wight Mr Big clip? That would make it the 4 input amp right behind Koss's head with the "arsha" logo on it, yes? I can't get a clear shot to make out the box depth. I need to get my DVD out and watch it again!

 

[Marshallhead]

Nope, that IoW amp isn't a Major. There's a clear shot on All Right Now (one of only 3 songs filmed at IoW, pity!) and the same amp is in The Stealer promo, it's a regular 100 watter - too shallow for a Major. Am I looking at the wrong clips?

The amps seem deeper on the Doing Their Thing footage but that's just an illusion created by the skinny old metal badge 4x12's that both Koss and Fraser used at that point - those old cabs are not as deep and are more like the straight but slightly slanted Park cabs which turn up now and then - the Doing Their Thing amps are all 100's too.

 

[demonufo]

+1 for the Superbass, the shared cathode, and the G12M all being a big factor in the tone (I use H's myself, too peaky for Koss, not even in the right ballpark!!!)
A 2203 is just too bright and inyerface to get this tone jus' right. The cascaded front end isn't doing much to help.

BUT...

One thing (well actually two) that may help a little, is trying different tubes in V1 and V3 (V1 being the cascaded gain stages, and V3 being the phase inverter). But you will have to spend a few quid and experiment. 5751's may reduce things enough, 12AT7's/ECC81's may do more to help. Especially in V3. Don't bother with 12AU7's in the phase inverter though, not so pretty sounding at all.

This may help smooth things out a little, and will reduce the gain. Experimenting in the PI (V3) particularly will help make things a little less brash.

Different speakers will bring big benefits though.

 

[SoloDallas]

+1 for the Superbass, the shared cathode, and the G12M all being a big factor in the tone (I use H's myself, too peaky for Koss, not even in the right ballpark!!!)
A 2203 is just too bright and inyerface to get this tone jus' right. The cascaded front end isn't doing much to help.

BUT...

One thing (well actually two) that may help a little, is trying different tubes in V1 and V3 (V1 being the cascaded gain stages, and V3 being the phase inverter). But you will have to spend a few quid and experiment. 5751's may reduce things enough, 12AT7's/ECC81's may do more to help. Especially in V3. Don't bother with 12AU7's in the phase inverter though, not so pretty sounding at all.

This may help smooth things out a little, and will reduce the gain. Experimenting in the PI (V3) particularly will help make things a little less brash.

Different speakers will bring big benefits though.

This is the kind of comment one wants to take note of; thank you!

 

[demonufo]

Also, I should add, if trying to persevere with the 2203, you might just find the answer is in plugging into the LO input, cranking the Master Volume up full, and tuning the gain with the gain pot.
WARNING! IT MIGHT GET LOUD!

 

[demonufo]

This is the kind of comment one wants to take note of; thank you!

Just in case you were wondering, the tube advice was mainly aimed at the 2203 use. It would be rather excessive going that far with a Superbass circuit (although experimenting with the phase inverter tube can still bring benefits )

 

[Trick]

if you want THAT tone, get yerself a Non-Master Marshall (1987/1959 or 1986/1992)

 

[TheMullerFan]

Cool guys, thanks for the advice. I haven't had the chance or the right room to try cranking the master volume then adjusting the preamp. Probably get close with that. I've seen a lot of things where he says he used bass speakers because he didnt like highs that much. I'll keep trying with the JMP because it's all i got

 

[coldsteal2]

He used the original G12H greenbacks if he was using bass speakers
(There is a reissue of this speaker called the Heritiage G12H)

not to be consused with G12H 30s which are a totaly different sounding
speaker

 

[demonufo]

He used the original G12H greenbacks if he was using bass speakers
(There is a reissue of this speaker called the Heritiage G12H)

not to be consused with G12H 30s which are a totaly different sounding
speaker

Well, the modern H30's and the anniversary's are not all that different sounding, but perhaps a little less bright than the original H's, and the Heritages, both of which despite being bass speakers are brighter and more peaky than the M's. Especially the Heritage's.

 

[Axis]

I don't think any of the Free Forever clips have Majors in them. They all look like 100 watters to me, many of them 8 input Super PAs and one of them (in the Doing Their Thing) clips is a 45/100. Unless I just didn't look closely enough! Exactly which clips have the Majors?

The Majors were bigger than the 100 watters.Here's another clip from the dvd with a major. You almost have to see the top on the cabinet to tell, look closely at the side shots.I always thought they were 100w until I looked closely.In the Isle of Wight Look at Andy's tops they are 100 watt and Paul has the major.
Just amazing tone.Always loved Paul's sound!!!!!!!!
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_FhCilozomo&feature=related]YouTube - Free - Mr Big[/ame]