matching speakers w/ cabinet

[Handel85]

please excuse my ignorance in advance, but I have a question on how one determines the speakers for a cab. here's my setup:
100 watt amp into a 2x12, 8ohm speaker cabinet rated at 140 power RMS, with two Celestion G12T-75 16 ohm speakers, at 75 watts each.

I do know a 100 watt amp going into a speaker cabinet rated for 140 RMS is perfectly fine, and these two speakers are plenty enough wattage to work with. however, my confusion lies in the total watts between the two speakers being more than the watts meant for the speaker cabinet. it's rated at 140 RMS, and these two speakers combined add up to 150 watts. Is this bad practice and if not why? thanks

 

[fitz]

please excuse my ignorance in advance, but I have a question on how one determines the speakers for a cab. here's my setup:
100 watt amp into a 2x12, 8ohm speaker cabinet rated at 140 power RMS, with two Celestion G12T-75 16 ohm speakers, at 75 watts each.

I do know a 100 watt amp going into a speaker cabinet rated for 140 RMS is perfectly fine, and these two speakers are plenty enough wattage to work with. however, my confusion lies in the total watts between the two speakers being more than the watts meant for the speaker cabinet. it's rated at 140 RMS, and these two speakers combined add up to 150 watts. Is this bad practice and if not why? thanks

What amp- what cab?
You are correct that two G12T-75 is 150w.
Not sure why the cab says 140w.
Are the speakers original to the cab?

 

[Handel85]

JCM2000 DSL100, sv212 cab that came with V-types which i wasn't particularly a fan of, so i swapped them out with the 75s (also an acquired taste)

Configuration	2 x 12"
Speakers	Celestion G12 V-Type
Power Handling	140W
Impedance	8 ohms

perhaps the power handling was referring just to the total power provided by the two V-types and not necessarily what the cab is wired for?

 

[RLW59]

JCM2000 DSL100, sv212 cab that came with V-types which i wasn't particularly a fan of, so i swapped them out with the 75s

perhaps the power handling was referring just to the total power provided by the two V-types and not necessarily what the cab is wired for?

Yes, the cab power rating is entirely based on the stock speaker rating.

The cab wiring can handle more power than any guitar amp puts out. The physical structure of the cab is strong enough to handle any guitar amp.

 

[Handel85]

thanks guys, makes sense. ok so next question. say I put two speakers in my 8ohm cab. the two speakers are 16ohm, 100 watt each. so 200 watt total going into a 100 watt amp. does that offer more headroom or any benefits?

 

[fitz]

thanks guys, makes sense. ok so next question. say I put two speakers in my 8ohm cab. the two speakers are 16ohm, 100 watt each. so 200 watt total going into a 100 watt amp. does that offer more headroom or any benefits?

Um, what 100w speaker? (sometimes details matter)
By "more headroom", do you want more clean volume?
And, well, "any benefits" can have many meanings...

 

[Handel85]

hypothetically just so I can learn, these speakers: https://www.amplifiedparts.com/products/speaker-eminence-12-legend-v12-120w-16
240 watts and a jcm2000 dsl100. yeah more clean volume

 

[fitz]

hypothetically just so I can learn, these speakers: https://www.amplifiedparts.com/products/speaker-eminence-12-legend-v12-120w-16
240 watts and a jcm2000 dsl100. yeah more clean volume

TBH, I have no firsthand knowledge of Eminence speakers.
I'm also not sure exactly how hard you can push a DSL100 clean, so I can't really say if the 120w speakers would stay clean louder then the 75w-ers.
Always a distinct possibility that someone smarter than me can provide better info.

 

[TassieViking]

Speaker cabs should be able to handle more watts then your amp can produce, otherwise you can destroy the speakers.
It makes no difference if your speaker can handle 400 watts and your amp can only put out 20 watts maximum.
I am thinking about using an Eminence Basslite S2010 (150W RMS) in a Marshall 12watt bass amp I'm building.

 

[Antti Heikkinen]

Speaker cabs should be able to handle more watts then your amp can produce, otherwise you can destroy the speakers.
It makes no difference if your speaker can handle 400 watts and your amp can only put out 20 watts maximum.
I am thinking about using an Eminence Basslite S2010 (150W RMS) in a Marshall 12watt bass amp I'm building.

Yes, to be safe for sure the cab should be rated for more than the amp, but t's nothing to be super worried about - ain't all that easy to blow up a guitar speaker with too much wattage. They take quite a beating and you'd really have to be deaf or intentionally drive them way too loud to break them. I've played for well over a decade with a 100W tube amp into a 2x12 50W cab with greenbacks and never had a problem. You just gotta take care not to turn it up all the way.

Not recommending it for anyone, but just to say that it's not like they explode the minute you play it it's quite safe to try out and just use common sense and your eyes and ears to notice when they're starting to be too tormented.

With PA speakers it's the other way around - using too low wattage for speakers is usually more likely to blow them up than using too much.

 

[RLW59]

To increase clean volume, the efficiency/sensitivity of the speaker is what matters, not power handling.

Power handling only tells you how much power you can pump into the speaker without damaging it.

The efficiency/sensitivity rating tells you how well the speaker turns watts into sound.

G12-T75's are rated at 97dB/1watt. V30's are rated at 100dB/1 watt. A 3dB increase is like doubling the power of the amp. (Not doubling the volume -- that takes 10 times the wattage, but a 3dB increase is very noticeably louder.)
------------------------
I like Eminence speakers a lot. But I've found their efficiency ratings are a bit exaggerated. They claim the Governor is 102.3dB, but my meter said it was exactly as loud as a 100dB V30 and a 100dB EVM12L (same amp, same settings).

To be fair, many companies measure things a bit differently. You can only directly compare the same company's product ratings. Eminence says the Governor is more efficient than their Texas Heat and that's correct.

They rate the Legend V12-16 at 100.9dB so it's less efficient than the Governor, so almost certainly less efficient than the V30.

 

[Robert Hughes]

Speaker cabs should be able to handle more watts then your amp can produce, otherwise you can destroy the speakers.
It makes no difference if your speaker can handle 400 watts and your amp can only put out 20 watts maximum.
I am thinking about using an Eminence Basslite S2010 (150W RMS) in a Marshall 12watt bass amp I'm building.

Yes, to be safe for sure the cab should be rated for more than the amp, but t's nothing to be super worried about - ain't all that easy to blow up a guitar speaker with too much wattage. They take quite a beating and you'd really have to be deaf or intentionally drive them way too loud to break them. I've played for well over a decade with a 100W tube amp into a 2x12 50W cab with greenbacks and never had a problem. You just gotta take care not to turn it up all the way.

Not recommending it for anyone, but just to say that it's not like they explode the minute you play it it's quite safe to try out and just use common sense and your eyes and ears to notice when they're starting to be too tormented.

With PA speakers it's the other way around - using too low wattage for speakers is usually more likely to blow them up than using too much.

Yes and no. For one, you lose cone breakup if you aren't pushing the speakers at least a bit. That doesn't mean putting 100 watts into a 20 watt speaker, but it also means you often lose something putting 20 watts into a 100 watt speaker. Now, if you don't want the speaker to break up because you're going for clean tones, then sure, use speakers rated much higher than your amp, and also look at the xmax to ensure that you aren't pushing the cones too far at a given wattage.

 

[Derrick111]

It makes no difference if your speaker can handle 400 watts and your amp can only put out 20 watts maximum.

It won't blow the speaker, but it sure does make a difference in the sound. A 20w amplifier pushing a speaker with a 400w capability will never sound like feeding the same speaker with, say, 300 watts from an amplifier. All sorts of physics are involved as to why. For example, many people love the sound of greenbacks and Jensons being driven hard. Many people don't like the sound of Celestion 75s at bedroom level.

 

[Matthews Guitars]

Clean volume capacity has NOTHING to do with speaker power rating. Except that if you fry a low power rated speaker with an amp that has more power output than it can, then there won't be any more clean volume out of it.

Speaker SENSITIVITY ratings will affect how much output you'll get for a given amount of power.

A speaker rated at 98 dB, 1 watt at 1 meter, will put out 3 dB less sound than one rated at 101 dB, 1 watt at 1 meter, for the same power input.

 

[Derrick111]

Physically compare a low watt Jenson with a 400w EV. The 400w capacity speaker will likely have thicker cone, more durable spider, and surround. Using 20w to drive a 400w speaker absolutely will effect sound. People aren't putting 400w speakers in little combo amps for more reasons than just cost. I can tell you from experience as a recording engineer that you simply cannot get cone overload/distortion from a 400w speaker like you can a 25w greenback, and you can't get the same drive from the ubiquitous 75w Celestion using a small combo to drive it as you can a 100w.

 

[Biff Maloy]

It won't blow the speaker, but it sure does make a difference in the sound. A 20w amplifier pushing a speaker with a 400w capability will never sound like feeding the same speaker with, say, 300 watts from an amplifier. All sorts of physics are involved as to why. For example, many people love the sound of greenbacks and Jensons being driven hard. Many people don't like the sound of Celestion 75s at bedroom level.

I totally agree. I like a pushed speaker. In my opinion that's where the speaker's unique voice is more apparent.

To keep the volume manageable I use a T75 in a closed Stagecraft 1x12 with my 50 watt Plexi. It swells up pretty good when some juice is shot to it.

 

[Dogs of Doom]

What amp- what cab?
You are correct that two G12T-75 is 150w.
Not sure why the cab says 140w.
Are the speakers original to the cab?

probably came w/ 70/80 speakers...

the 75 watters are an upgrade, & will be perfectly fine in that cab, regardless of which cab it is.

 

[fitz]

probably came w/ 70/80 speakers...

the 75 watters are an upgrade, & will be perfectly fine in that cab, regardless of which cab it is.

post #3

sv212 cab that came with V-types

I actually like the V-Types in my 5002 cabs (C110 clones I made to hold 12"ers).

 

[Derrick111]

I totally agree. I like a pushed speaker. In my opinion that's where the speaker's unique voice is more apparent.

To keep the volume manageable I use a T75 in a closed Stagecraft 1x12 with my 50 watt Plexi. It swells up pretty good when some juice is shot to it.

Exactly! A super low wattage amp into a super hi wattage speaker almost always will yield a rather "clinical" sound character, while a well matched speaker(s) to a given amp yields a lively tone.

 

[Biff Maloy]

Exactly! A super low wattage amp into a super hi wattage speaker almost always will yield a rather "clinical" sound character, while a well matched speaker(s) to a given amp yields a lively tone.

Good to hear others are keen to this. I guess it's all in what a player wants. A high gain amp I prefer higher wattage speakers for stability but in the case of Plexi tones speaker breakup is key to me.

I initially tried a pair of Creambacks in my 2x12. H75 and Alnico 90. More curiosity since I'd never played through them. My Germino just couldn't push them at all and just didn't fit. Went with a pair of Greenback 25 watt speakers after confirming with Greg that I'd be safe. Man they thump and sound great. Adds a bit more response to the input you give while playing. I'm eventually getting a 4x12 built. A quad of Heritage G12M20's are going in it. 80 watts and low efficiency. This will allow me to use it in the right application and push them hard.