Mid '70's 1960B w/G12M Blackbacks.... Price?

[charvel2]

Hey gang,
I have a chance to by a Mid '70's era 1960B w/ G12M Blackback speakers from a friend of mine and need help as to what it's worth. He said the speakers are date
coded as 11/11/78 and one is 12/5/77.(that seems a little odd) The cab itself is ok and looks as would be expected for a old cab that has seen a lot of use. Someone painted the checkerboard grill cloth black. The Marshall logo is missing and has no casters. He's asking $900 for it and said would sell the cab w/o speakers for $300. Said he see's the speaker's going for $200/ea on EBay. When I checked sold's, i found them from $96-$125. Without the speakers, I can't see the cab being worth much as nothing special about it the cabs haven't really changed in constuction from about '73 on. If anyone could give me a handle on pricing, would be very much appreciated. Thanks

 

[jakub421]

I was able to purchase a pair of '73 Graybacks for $100...

I have heard that Blackbacks do not sound as good as the earlier speakers, but I have never personally heard them. I would probably not pay more than $5-600 for that cab with the speakers, maybe $700 if it sounded really good. I would say go check it out and see if you like it.

 

[Ken]

I can't see the cab being worth much as nothing special about it the cabs haven't really changed in constuction from about '73 on. If anyone could give me a handle on pricing, would be very much appreciated. Thanks

Exactly. An unloaded 1960 cabinet from the 1970's really isn't a big deal, especially in well worn and molested condition. If he had the casters, they'd be worth more than the cabinet; sets can sell for $300+ depending on condition and color.

As is...$100 for the cab and $100 each for speakers is $500. You might find beat but usable casters for $100, at least I did a few years ago. Be sure you get the fine threaded ones; the casters made in the mid/late 1980's and later will not fit.

Personally I'd pass on the cabinet unless it was $400 loaded.

Ken

 

[chuckharmonjr]

Dude is absolutely off his meds. No way in hell is a 70's beat to shit no casters cab worth $900. Thats insane.

 

[george76]

An unloaded 1960 cabinet from the 1970's really isn't a big deal, especially in well worn and molested condition.

I beg to differ. Its a shame no-one appreciates the late 70's cabs. If you stripped one down to the bare wood and compared it against the cabs Marshall are making today you would notice some big differences in quality. I know because Ive done it. When I stripped down the back panel of a '1960AV' cab a few years ago it literally crumbled away in my hands.

I guess thats why marshall make them like they do nowadays. Most people just can't tell the difference so long as they look the same from the outside, so why bother getting the more expensive woods to make them with.

I know some people that prefer blackbacks to the earlier speakers too. So long as the speakers are in good condition they are worth paying a premium for in my opinion. Within reason of course.

People who dont like the look of beat up old Marshalls have no soul.

 

[soundboy57]

I beg to differ. Its a shame no-one appreciates the late 70's cabs. If you stripped one down to the bare wood and compared it against the cabs Marshall are making today you would notice some big differences in quality. I know because Ive done it. When I stripped down the back panel of a '1960AV' cab a few years ago it literally crumbled away in my hands.

I guess thats why marshall make them like they do nowadays. Most people just can't tell the difference so long as they look the same from the outside, so why bother getting the more expensive woods to make them with.

I know some people that prefer blackbacks to the earlier speakers too. So long as the speakers are in good condition they are worth paying a premium for in my opinion. Within reason of course.

People who dont like the look of beat up old Marshalls have no soul.

100%.

I sold a near mint 1975 slant cab on the Les Paul Forum for $1500 within a few hours. Again, it was nearly mint, no issues.
Guys over there appreciate vintage gear, and are used to paying $4500 or more for a guitar.
They also don't piss on every Les Paul that shows up, and downgrade the price to nothing, because perhaps a beat one sold cheap on Ebay a few month's ago...or some fool put one up for a cheap buy it now.
They appreciate, and are knowledgeable about the value of the original parts: pickups, bridge, pots, tuners, fret life, etc.
Kind of like a cab with original Celestions, wiring, casters, logo, etc.

A quad of mint blackbacks is still worth $800. Finding a single with a torn up label, missing cover, or a slight repair, for cheaper, is possible. Even a nice one for less than $200 is possible. But include shipping, and that's not far off.
But a set of four, is much less likely.

I like my 78 G12M 55hz blackbacks as much or more than my 71 Pulsonics. Go figure. They sound different, but in a great way.

The build quality and wood of a cabinet built from the 80's to the present isn't comparable to the pre 1977-78 cabs for bracing, or wood quality. And they sound like it.

If that $900 beat up cab has $800 in mint untouched speakers in it, that doesn't sound crazy to me...but most won't pay more than $600 because of the condition, so that is what I would offer...in case you don't like it and want to resell it.

If it were my cab, I would want what the speakers are worth. About $800.

My two cents.

 

[Ken]

I beg to differ. Its a shame no-one appreciates the late 70's cabs. If you stripped one down to the bare wood and compared it against the cabs Marshall are making today you would notice some big differences in quality. I know because Ive done it. When I stripped down the back panel of a '1960AV' cab a few years ago it literally crumbled away in my hands.

I guess thats why marshall make them like they do nowadays. Most people just can't tell the difference so long as they look the same from the outside, so why bother getting the more expensive woods to make them with.

I know some people that prefer blackbacks to the earlier speakers too. So long as the speakers are in good condition they are worth paying a premium for in my opinion. Within reason of course.

People who dont like the look of beat up old Marshalls have no soul.

I agree that people don't "appreciate" the older cabinets with their wallets. Perhaps they're just not scarce enough in beat condition to command any kind of a price. As for quality, yes I would like a "better made" cabinet whenever possible but as long as they hold up to the road, I'm not paying up for a beat to hell unloaded mid 70's cabinet. In this case, there are no casters, no logo and it's beat to hell. Assuming the speakers can be had for $500 for all 4, the seller values the cab at $400 which is silly. As I said, I'd pay $400-500 loaded and I think that's a fair value. For $900 it would have to be in excellent shape with the original casters and logo and not painted.

My 1982A is in pretty nice cosmetic condition, my B cab not so nice as it's the one I use when I'm not hauling both cabs. I won't restore it though; I just glue the torn pieces back on. I would only restore it if it got really, really bad.

Ken

 

[GIBSON67]

We need cab pics and speaker pics! A painted grill is a not going to fetch top dollars, either.

BBs can go as high as $200 each if in mint condition, $150 each is more reasonable for excellent/good cosmetic condition, and $125 would be for poor cosmetic condtion, but still sonically fit speakers.

 

[Ken]

100%.

I sold a near mint 1975 slant cab on the Les Paul Forum for $1500 within a few hours. Again, it was nearly mint, no issues.


If it were my cab, I would want what the speakers are worth. About $800.

My two cents.

That's top dollar, but near mint cabs from 1975 are few and far between! Plus I assume it had the casters. That's a nice sale and the buyer should be pleased too as 40 year old cabs in top shape don't grow on trees. If you want one, you need to pay for it.

If the speakers are $800, and the guy wants $900, he's valuing the cabinet at $100 which supports my point that 70's cabs in beat condition, molested and missing casters and logo have little value. OTOH, you got $700 for your cabinet so at the top end, these cabinets even if unloaded have significant value after all. Might make me reconsider restoring my 1982B...

Ken

 

[soundboy57]

That's top dollar, but near mint cabs from 1975 are few and far between! Plus I assume it had the casters. That's a nice sale and the buyer should be pleased too as 40 year old cabs in top shape don't grow on trees. If you want one, you need to pay for it.

If the speakers are $800, and the guy wants $900, he's valuing the cabinet at $100 which supports my point that 70's cabs in beat condition, molested and missing casters and logo have little value. OTOH, you got $700 for your cabinet so at the top end, these cabinets even if unloaded have significant value after all. Might make me reconsider restoring my 1982B...

Ken

Yup, pretty near mint. I miss it but I have about 10 cabs, and the 78 blackbacks sound better, for some reason...
I don't mean to sound harsh towards ANYONE on here...I just love these old cabs, in original condition, with the original speakers, and even the beat ones are cool..

 

[GIBSON67]

Oooh nice, what is the cone number for that beauty, Soundboy? Black tabs, I had a 1974 with a black tab and no cone number...I should have kept it!

 

[soundboy57]

All the cones were 1777.