Newbie advise please

[TMR]

Hello all,
I'm considering chopping in my sons Blackstar solid state amp as it's a bit too bassie and buying him a Marshall dsl40cr.
He plays guitar over backing tracks and records them for TIKTOK, so we are after a great sound. I see the 40cr has an audio in jack but does it play backing tracks well at good quality? The blackstar is kind of muffled when playing backing tracks so we end up using two amps which isn't ideal. I don't want to spend a lot of money only to find we get the same issue. Any help appreciated. Many thanks

 

[vivanchenko]

I am not a recording guru, but the way I see it is that guitar amps and speakers are optimized for guitar frequencies and EQ preferred by most lead/rhythm guitar players only. The preferred EQ and frequencies required for other instruments can be very different. If I wanted quality, I would record guitar as a separate track.

 

[TMR]

I am not a recording guru, but the way I see it is that guitar amps and speakers are optimized for guitar frequencies and EQ preferred by most lead/rhythm guitar players only. The preferred EQ and frequencies required for other instruments can be very different. If I wanted quality, I would record guitar as a separate track.

Yes that's a fair comment. However he plays live too and still needs to ply backing tracks as he's on 13 and not in a band. I appreciate we are not going to get top notch quality, but do need to be able to do both at an above average quality. The blackstar just doesn't offer that, so I'm hoping if anybody (maybe someone that owns one) can give me the answer, maybe by trying it out for us and reporting back? Big ask I know!!

 

[vivanchenko]

Yes that's a fair comment. However he plays live too and still needs to ply backing tracks as he's on 13 and not in a band. I appreciate we are not going to get top notch quality, but do need to be able to do both at an above average quality. The blackstar just doesn't offer that, so I'm hoping if anybody (maybe someone that owns one) can give me the answer, maybe by trying it out for us and reporting back? Big ask I know!!

Backing track quality is not a priority for guitar speaker design. Not even close. All Marshall combos will perform equally poorly for this purpose. It wouldn't be a consideration for me. I would just get an amp which makes my guitar sound good. The 40 Cr should deliver.

 

[TheKman76]

Not gonna' do what you want I think. I don't think any dedicated guitar amp will do this well.

However, something like the Positive Grid Spark range is designed for exactly this purpose. I have the Spark 40, which is great for practice, but not really loud enough to keep up with a drummer. I believe the Spark Live might suit your needs better.

There are also plenty of of options in the 'busking' space too. Roland, et al.

 

[TMR]

Not gonna' do what you want I think. I don't think any dedicated guitar amp will do this well.

However, something like the Positive Grid Spark range is designed for exactly this purpose. I have the Spark 40, which is great for practice, but not really loud enough to keep up with a drummer. I believe the Spark Live might suit your needs better.

There are also plenty of of options in the 'busking' space too. Roland, et al.

Hi, yes we have a spark mini which is a great little amp, but it doesn't work well with pedals and external effects units. I know you can change effects etc with the app, but you can't do it mid track. We even bought the pedal but that is soooo complicated to set up and you have to have the app open still to use it! That's why we have gone back to a traditional amp. At the moment we are experimenting with using the spark mini for running the backing tracks and the standard amp for guitar, but balancing the levels independently can prove tricky.

 

[SkyMonkey]

I have the 40CR, but have never tried the Audio In to play along with.
This is for two reasons.
1. I really don't expect it will sound good because it's a guitar amp, not a Hi-Fi.
2. I have a fairly decent PC system w/ Monitors in the room, so I use that.

I have never heard a decent sound from an Audio/mp3 in jack on an amp.
It is useful for playing constant audio for speaker breaking in maybe?

An amp designed with Full Range Flat Response (FRFR) speaker may be the way to go.

 

[PelliX]

I certainly wouldn't want to record that way, but just for practical use - yes a DSL will handle that "quite OK". The modern DSL's get almost all their 'tone shaping' from the preamp, whereas the 'Line in' or 'Aux in' or whatever it's labeled goes straight to the power stage which is fairly neutral. Speakers will make a difference, so don't expect the most sublime hi-fi quality (or even stereo, of course), but I've played around with that on my DSL for shits and giggles - I wasn't disappointed.

Now, my recommendation would be to mic the amp and overlay it with the "backing track" post-recording. Alternatively, there's plenty of kit like attenuators and so on that provide a line or DI out, etc. Perhaps a little far fetched for this scenario. What I can tell you is that the end result will be a lot better if you keep the backing track in its original quality (and stereo) and mix the (mono) guitar over it.

 

[TMR]

I have the 40CR, but have never tried the Audio In to play along with.
This is for two reasons.
1. I really don't expect it will sound good because it's a guitar amp, not a Hi-Fi.
2. I have a fairly decent PC system w/ Monitors in the room, so I use that.

I have never heard a decent sound from an Audio/mp3 in jack on an amp.
It is useful for playing constant audio for speaker breaking in maybe?

An amp designed with Full Range Flat Response (FRFR) speaker may be the way to go.

Got any suggestions or recommendations??

 

[TMR]

I certainly wouldn't want to record that way, but just for practical use - yes a DSL will handle that "quite OK". The modern DSL's get almost all their 'tone shaping' from the preamp, whereas the 'Line in' or 'Aux in' or whatever it's labeled goes straight to the power stage which is fairly neutral. Speakers will make a difference, so don't expect the most sublime hi-fi quality (or even stereo, of course), but I've played around with that on my DSL for shits and giggles - I wasn't disappointed.

Now, my recommendation would be to mic the amp and overlay it with the "backing track" post-recording. Alternatively, there's plenty of kit like attenuators and so on that provide a line or DI out, etc. Perhaps a little far fetched for this scenario. What I can tell you is that the end result will be a lot better if you keep the backing track in its original quality (and stereo) and mix the (mono) guitar over it.

As we are complete novices to this, what you suggest makes no sense to me what's so ever. We (he) plays live on TikTok too so overlaying isn't really an option for us.
But I appreciate your reply

 

[PelliX]

We (he) plays live on TikTok too so overlaying isn't really an option for us.

Gotcha. So how are you doing this now, just one mic in the room and streaming that?

The best solution would always be to avoid the backing track going through the amp. Can you stream both the backing track and the guitar sound simultaneously? If you don't need the backing track to do a round trip through the amp, that would be preferrable.

 

[TMR]

Gotcha. So how are you doing this now, just one mic in the room and streaming that?

The best solution would always be to avoid the backing track going through the amp. Can you stream both the backing track and the guitar sound simultaneously? If you don't need the backing track to do a round trip through the amp, that would be preferrable.

ATM we use the blackstar amp for the guitar and a PG spark mini to play the backing track through, then try to balance the volumes. We stream direct through the iPhone camera and mic.
I'd like to get a more pro set up but can't find out how to do it without the need for headphones which my lad doesn't like wearing. We tried monitor speakers but the voice mic just kept picking them up and causing extra issues!

 

[PelliX]

ATM we use the blackstar amp for the guitar and a PG spark mini to play the backing track through, then try to balance the volumes.

Yeah, that's going to be tough.

We stream direct through the iPhone camera and mic.

Triple tough then. First of all the iPhone favors speech and does automatic noise cancellation on anything else to a degree to reduce background noise (and they're bloody good at it sometimes, too!). Secondly it will raise the gain to hit its desired levels during quiet parts so everything ends up at a uniform volume. Great for calls and holiday videos, not so great for music.

I'd like to get a more pro set up but can't find out how to do it without the need for headphones which my lad doesn't like wearing. We tried monitor speakers but the voice mic just kept picking them up and causing extra issues!

Well, if you record/stream the guitar without a mic (so, a DI output, line output, playing through an interface, whatever) then he can simply have the backing track blasting in the room, too. Getting used to in-ears is a good thing, even if he decides they're not for him later.

The trick would be to bring the backing track and the guitar together. A little analog mixer or small audio interface for the PC would do this.

 

[TMR]

Yeah, that's going to be tough.



Triple tough then. First of all the iPhone favors speech and does automatic noise cancellation on anything else to a degree to reduce background noise (and they're bloody good at it sometimes, too!). Secondly it will raise the gain to hit its desired levels during quiet parts so everything ends up at a uniform volume. Great for calls and holiday videos, not so great for music.



Well, if you record/stream the guitar without a mic (so, a DI output, line output, playing through an interface, whatever) then he can simply have the backing track blasting in the room, too. Getting used to in-ears is a good thing, even if he decides they're not for him later.

The trick would be to bring the backing track and the guitar together. A little analog mixer or small audio interface for the PC would do this.

Ok so this is where it all starts to go south, I have no clue what anything you are trying to advise of is. We do have the backing track playing into the room via the spark mini. I've tried a small twin channel mixer but I just can't get a sound to come through it. Maybe because I'm trying to play it through the amp? Would a house high system be better? And just use the amp for jamming?

 

[Oldpunk]

Get a Spark.

 

[SkyMonkey]

It's not simple, and it's not cheap (to do properly).

I have skimmed this vid and he seems to know what he's talking about.

Shopping list:
Vocal mic (condenser?) & stand.
Laptop/PC.
Audio interface (USB), e.g. Focusrite Scarlett Solo.
iRig Stream.
In-ear monitors.
Basic DAW software (Digital Audio Workstation). Cakewalk by Bandlab is free BTW.
Guitar amp software 'plug-in'. e.g. Native Instruments Guitar Rig 7.

No actual guitar amp is needed.

BandLab - Make Music Online

The cloud platform where musicians and fans create music, collaborate, and engage with each other across the globe

www.bandlab.com

Scarlett Solo

Bringing big studio sound to wherever you make music, Focusrite Scarlett Solo makes it easier than ever to record and release your songs.

focusrite.com

https://www.native-instruments.com/en/products/komplete/guitar/guitar-rig-7-pro/

 

[PelliX]

Ok so this is where it all starts to go south, I have no clue what anything you are trying to advise of is.

I fully understand that, it's a lot of info. Not being condescending here - just plain and honest. Probably a video like the one below or someone in person can explain it better to you.

We do have the backing track playing into the room via the spark mini. I've tried a small twin channel mixer but I just can't get a sound to come through it.

That's odd - it should in theory work like that. If you want to pursue that route, let us know what mixer and how you've got it hooked up and we can probably get you going. If, of course.

Would a house high system be better? And just use the amp for jamming?

That's effectively the same thing, but you're also apparently ideally looking at adding a vocal mic to the mix. With a mic at the grill of an amp you can ignore a certain level of sound in the room. That becomes much less so for vocals. There are lots of ways to go from here, maybe check out some options (like that video and so on) and get your bearings.

 

[SkyMonkey]

I have heard of folk on the MF using one of these as an Audio Interface before.
The BOSS BR-800 has amp sims and stereo effects built in too.
Discontinued, but still available on eBay etc.

BOSS - BR-800 | Digital Recorder

BR-800: Digital Recorder - The Complete, Portable Music-Production Solution

www.boss.info

Boss BR-800 BR800 Digital Recorder Guitar Bass Vocal FX Drum Machine 32GB SDcard 748367313301 | eBay

It has a maximum sampling rate of 24 bit (44.1 kHz), and a compact form factor that makes it perfect for tabletop use.

www.ebay.co.uk

 

[TMR]

Th

It's not simple, and it's not cheap (to do properly).

I have skimmed this vid and he seems to know what he's talking about.

Shopping list:
Vocal mic (condenser?) & stand.
Laptop/PC.
Audio interface (USB), e.g. Focusrite Scarlett Solo.
iRig Stream.
In-ear monitors.
Basic DAW software (Digital Audio Workstation). Cakewalk by Bandlab is free BTW.
Guitar amp software 'plug-in'. e.g. Native Instruments Guitar Rig 7.

No actual guitar amp is needed.

BandLab - Make Music Online

The cloud platform where musicians and fans create music, collaborate, and engage with each other across the globe

www.bandlab.com

Scarlett Solo

Bringing big studio sound to wherever you make music, Focusrite Scarlett Solo makes it easier than ever to record and release your songs.

focusrite.com

https://www.native-instruments.com/en/products/komplete/guitar/guitar-rig-7-pro/

Thanks I'll check this out.