Preamp Tubes? - Who, What, When, Where, Why, and How?

[Rev-al]

Nice !
(tho my girl is already getting worried about me + the amount of time I spend 'playing about' with my valves - Think she'd prefer my to go back to looking at the other type of porn!)

 

[solarburn]

Any of you guys have any cheap sovtek 12ax7 wa ,try it in the PI slot there pretty smooth!

I like the Sovtec LPS in the PI. I don't have any of the WA's left. They went out with the recycling with all the rest of the cardboard.

 

[RiverRatt]

Yeah and when you get that code book mastered, then I will start you on Boolean Algebra and tube theory.

There will be a test after the Christmas break.

 

[racko7566]

Well guys, I haven't had much time to post lately because I cant put my guitar down. I actually fell asleep around 11 last night and woke up at 3 am. guitar on my lap and amp still on. (we'll call it burn in) . I took Solars advice and got me a quad of Electo-Harmonix 6ca7EH's. They made my amp sound so much better. I now began rollin all over agian because they made all my preamp tubes sound better and different. It killed alot of the fizzy distortion and made it sound smooth and roaring on lead 1 with gain around 6. They feel and respond great, and sound much better for palm muted notes. The combination of these power tubes really bring out the quality sound of the nos pre amp tubes I got from Marty. My favorite combo is the Amperex in v1, raytheon black plate in v2, a sylvania grey plate in v3, and a super hot slylvania in v4. The only other tubes Ive tried in power section are the stock russian or chinese tubes that came with the amp, which dont suck too bad, then I tried some JJ el34's which I thought sucked balls, and a set of EHel34's which were better than the other two brands but not quite the sound I was looking for. Now Im in heaven. I just scored 3 raytheon bp's for 68 bucs on ebay and 4 7025's for 69 bucks so I think I can chill for a while on buying and just enjoy rollin. you know, this all started as guitar playing being my hobby, which Im not the greatist at but still getting better at , and turned it into a new hobby.... my amp and experimenting with it is so fun also. I really wanna thank all you guys on this thread, your a great bunch. I have a good time reading here. Not a day goes by that I dont pop in. Well I,d like to give a little back. The ehel34's I have I want to put on a journey of tone searching, Any one who would like to try them out PM me and I will ship them to you, play them a while and pass them on to the next person that might like to try them. Lets see how far the can travel around the country and maybe make it across the pond. by the way will move them as a quad so 50 watters and 100 watters can try them. Merry Christmas to all my new friends here, Racko

 

[solarburn]

Well guys, I haven't had much time to post lately because I cant put my guitar down. I actually fell asleep around 11 last night and woke up at 3 am. guitar on my lap and amp still on. (we'll call it burn in) . I took Solars advice and got me a quad of Electo-Harmonix 6ca7EH's. They made my amp sound so much better. I now began rollin all over agian because they made all my preamp tubes sound better and different. It killed alot of the fizzy distortion and made it sound smooth and roaring on lead 1 with gain around 6. They feel and respond great, and sound much better for palm muted notes. The combination of these power tubes really bring out the quality sound of the nos pre amp tubes I got from Marty. My favorite combo is the Amperex in v1, raytheon black plate in v2, a sylvania grey plate in v3, and a super hot slylvania in v4. The only other tubes Ive tried in power section are the stock russian or chinese tubes that came with the amp, which dont suck too bad, then I tried some JJ el34's which I thought sucked balls, and a set of EHel34's which were better than the other two brands but not quite the sound I was looking for. Now Im in heaven. I just scored 3 raytheon bp's for 68 bucs on ebay and 4 7025's for 69 bucks so I think I can chill for a while on buying and just enjoy rollin. you know, this all started as guitar playing being my hobby, which Im not the greatist at but still getting better at , and turned it into a new hobby.... my amp and experimenting with it is so fun also. I really wanna thank all you guys on this thread, your a great bunch. I have a good time reading here. Not a day goes by that I dont pop in. Well I,d like to give a little back. The ehel34's I have I want to put on a journey of tone searching, Any one who would like to try them out PM me and I will ship them to you, play them a while and pass them on to the next person that might like to try them. Lets see how far the can travel around the country and maybe make it across the pond. by the way will move them as a quad so 50 watters and 100 watters can try them. Merry Christmas to all my new friends here, Racko

That's 2 of us now!



Great idea for the EH34's and a generous offer!

 

[MartyStrat54]

Got a big load of tubes in today, but no black plates. Was running through some Tele ribbed plates and I was thinking, "Man these are V2's." They were running 30-31, 32-30, 32-35 and 31-31. Then I put the next one in and it was 17-12. Oh no. Then the last one, 22-16. Two bad one's. This is my first time with this seller, Pamela. Her other tubes were fantastic. Are you guys familiar with "black top" getter flash? This is actually a better getter material than the nice chrome looking flash. It took more time, so only a small amount were treated this way. Well, I got six Mullards and two of them are black tops. These are real Mullard's, not relabeled. Lastly, four Amperex, two of them 1958 Bugle Boys. Several of the Mullards and two of the Amperex were V2's...hot, hot!

I have 12 more of the Electrohomes due any day now. I am really happy with these. You just can't go wrong with a Philips tube, regardless of where it was made.

I'm glad to see that quite a few of you are getting on the EBAY train. Just remember the rules I posted about this so you don't get stuck with a dud and not know it's a dud. You can't trust everyone on EBAY. Make sure you buy from a reputable seller with great feedback. Go to his feedback page. Does he sell a lot of electronics, or does he deal mainly in baby clothes? Some of these guys don't know a tube from a turnip.

Take care, Merry Christmas.

 

[wegman]

Hey guys good evening.

I just tried out a new tube called an Electrohome. I got it off a guy I work with who just found his "tube caddy" whatever the Hell that is (still can't find his tube tester and I hit up with that sweetheart again today offering to buy it).

This tube has got some major aggression pent up inside. I tried it in V1 with my current tube setup and it was just over the top. My setup was:

V1 Electrohome

V2 GE

V3 Ge

V4 Groove Tube (reverb which I don't use)

V5 RCA Black Plate

I mean it sounded good but it was to much of good thing. So I went to:

V1 Electrohome

V2 RCA Black Plate

V3 Ge

V4 (same piece of crap)

V5 RCA Black Plate

That was the ticket! My amp is so agressive now it is amazing. It grunts now, yet I didn't lose the articulation.

What is the story on these Electrohome tubes? Is it some super aggressive tube or something?

Lastly my power tubes have to go. They suck.

 

[MartyStrat54]

Try your RCA BP in V1 and the Philips in V2. I believe on this amp V2 is the tone stack/cathode follower circuits.

Also, you may be used to the lower gain of the old tubes. Try rethinking your guitar volume controls and your amp settings. If the Electrohome is a little hotter, you will want to play around with the controls on your amp and guitar. You might have to really roll the guitar volume down for your cleaner sound and then you might want to see where you are at with the guitar all the way up. If its too much, then adjust your amp, because the guitar is only going to produce the cleaner sound and the ballsy crunch sound.

 

[MartyStrat54]

Okay, I went to Dr. Tube and looked at your amp. Did you list what the premap tubes do? I remember someone doing this. I forgot that this is a split channel. Looking at the schematic, it appears that V1 is split and one side is for your normal channel and the other your boost channel. However, V2 does look like the TS/CF circuits. Then it gets a little crazy. V4 is the reverb driver, but it only needs one half of the tube. The other half could be an additional gain channel. V3 is also split and with that schematic drawing being bad, there is a chance that there may be a gain channel here.

V5 is the PI.

I learn stuff all of the time. I just recently found out that some of the old Marshall with 3 preamp tubes actually used all of V1 and half of V2. Well that makes a big difference on how you approach putting tubes in it.

Same thing with your animal. I mean that must be a really bad ass 800. I've only played the early single channels. I'll talk to Jon Wilder and see what he has to say. I'm thinking that you got at least one more gain channel in that group of tubes.

 

[wegman]

Okay, I went to Dr. Tube and looked at your amp. Did you list what the premap tubes do? I remember someone doing this. I forgot that this is a split channel. Looking at the schematic, it appears that V1 is split and one side is for your normal channel and the other your boost channel. However, V2 does look like the TS/CF circuits. Then it gets a little crazy. V4 is the reverb driver, but it only needs one half of the tube. The other half could be an additional gain channel. V3 is also split and with that schematic drawing being bad, there is a chance that there may be a gain channel here.

V5 is the PI.

I learn stuff all of the time. I just recently found out that some of the old Marshall with 3 preamp tubes actually used all of V1 and half of V2. Well that makes a big difference on how you approach putting tubes in it.

Same thing with your animal. I mean that must be a really bad ass 800. I've only played the early single channels. I'll talk to Jon Wilder and see what he has to say. I'm thinking that you got at least one more gain channel in that group of tubes.

Wow that is info I didn't know. I thought 1 & 2 were gain, 3 was tone, 4 was reverb and 5 was the PI.

If what you say is true, and it probably is then your absolutely correct. I need to approach my tube placement differently.

Man that's an eye opener.

 

[RiverRatt]

That was the ticket! My amp is so agressive now it is amazing. It grunts now, yet I didn't lose the articulation.

What is the story on these Electrohome tubes? Is it some super aggressive tube or something?

Welcome to the world of Philips, my man! That's why I was excited about getting those 3 Matsushitas for $15. Sometimes the gods smile on you.

Now, think about the fact that almost everyone here prefers Telefunkens over Philips (except Marty and his Amperex... I now have a couple of those to test if I can ever get home long enough!!).

 

[solarburn]

Welcome to the world of Philips, my man! That's why I was excited about getting those 3 Matsushitas for $15. Sometimes the gods smile on you.

Now, think about the fact that almost everyone here prefers Telefunkens over Philips (except Marty and his Amperex... I now have a couple of those to test if I can ever get home long enough!!).

I still am enjoying my Matsushita Alan. I have an Electrohome I've been sampling and its a good'n too. Like I've said before when you get quality tubes like this its hard to stay with one set up cause of the quality of tone from others in the mix.

I will say this. I have not wanted to change the BP out of V2 while mixing them. It just seems best in that spot on mine. The other tubes keep mixing really well with it and to my ears sound better when the BP is in V2. I took my RFT out of the PI and put in a Mullard and an interesting thing happened to the mids overall. So the Mullard sounds good there. It tested at 31/31. Pretty damn stout!

 

[MartyStrat54]

Hey WEGMAN you owe me. You also owe Jon Wilder a cold beer...a good one.

I looked at the schematic on Dr. Tube and I broke it down to what I thought the tubes were doing. I was close, but Jon was exact. Take a walk with me.

Hey Marty...close, very close. Not bad.

Yes V1A is split and sends signal to both the normal as well as the boost channel. However this amp does not use the standard "cathode follower" into the tone stack. Both halves of V2 along with V1a make up the normal channel. V1a along with V1b and V3a make up the boost channel. V3b is the reverb driver amp while V4b is the reverb recovery amp. V4a is the Effects Return recovery amp to step the signal back up from line level back to the level it needs to be to drive the phase inverter (R32 along with R31 and the Reverb pot form a voltage divider to pad the signal down to line/pedal level before it hits the send jack...R32 is also the "blend" resistor for the reverb circuit).

There you go. That signal path is like going in circles. Let's break it down.

Normal Channel: V1A and V2A and V2B

Boost Channel: V1A and V1B and V3A

Reverb: V3B and V4B

Effects Return: V4A

Phase Inverter: V5

To be honest, it would take some very serious tube rolling to set this amp up. In reality, you would want V1 to be say a 24-27 tube. Then V2 would be a 26-26 as this is your normal channel. Then you would have to get a tube for V3 that would be like 29-25. Not that difficult when you have 400 tubes.

So V1 is important, but what makes it tough is that it is double duty. Instead of a 27-27, you would want a 24-27. V2 is the easiest tube there is. It is dedicated to the Clean Channel. Your Boost Channel is like connect the dots.

However, it can be done. I just needed to see how it worked.

And yes, you are going to have to get your tubes tested so you can rethink your approach on this monster.

 

[RiverRatt]

Hey WEGMAN you owe me. You also owe Jon Wilder a cold beer...a good one.

I looked at the schematic on Dr. Tube and I broke it down to what I thought the tubes were doing. I was close, but Jon was exact. Take a walk with me.



There you go. That signal path is like going in circles. Let's break it down.

Normal Channel: V1A and V2A and V2B

Boost Channel: V1A and V1B and V3A

Reverb: V3B and V4B

Effects Return: V4A

Phase Inverter: V5

To be honest, it would take some very serious tube rolling to set this amp up. In reality, you would want V1 to be say a 24-27 tube. Then V2 would be a 26-26 as this is your normal channel. Then you would have to get a tube for V3 that would be like 29-25. Not that difficult when you have 400 tubes.

So V1 is important, but what makes it tough is that it is double duty. Instead of a 27-27, you would want a 24-27. V2 is the easiest tube there is. It is dedicated to the Clean Channel. Your Boost Channel is like connect the dots.

However, it can be done. I just needed to see how it worked.

And yes, you are going to have to get your tubes tested so you can rethink your approach on this monster.

Wow. That's absolutely convoluted. Is this the boolean algebra lesson you were talking about?

 

[MartyStrat54]

No, this is more like Differential Equations.

Wait till Weggie gets a load of this.

<Wakes up and goes to computer.>

<Goes to Marshall Amp Forum, Preamp Tubes Thread.>

<Sees what Marty has posted.>

<Shits his pants.>

 

[RiverRatt]

Yup. I'd need a flowchart to keep up with that. Well, it's time to go home. Wonder if I can get away with firing up the amp? I really, really want to get started trying out all these tubes!

 

[Procter2812]

Just got my Mazda ECC83 through.

Its exactly the same as my Brimar.

And tests strong! all for £5.99!

 

[underliner6]

JJ Tubes any good?

 

[solarburn]

No, this is more like Differential Equations.

Wait till Weggie gets a load of this.

<Wakes up and goes to computer.>

<Goes to Marshall Amp Forum, Preamp Tubes Thread.>

<Sees what Marty has posted.>

<Shits his pants.>

You'd have to pay a professional tube roll'n sumbich to get that amp tuned up right!:eek2::Ohno:

Just do the best ya can JW...

 

[solarburn]

JJ Tubes any good?

IME...no.