Preamp Tubes? - Who, What, When, Where, Why, and How?

[MartyStrat54]

Well I did an extensive search. A hopeful page wouldn't load and that was disappointing. In one search, I found mention of a special audiophile tube that had a 9A pinout. It was a GE labeled United Electron. Now this does make a little sense in the fact that GE and Sylvania were the last two tube manufacturer's in the country. I don't know who else was making tubes in 77 or 78, but I know GE and Sylvania still were.

Now the rules for stating the country of origin was pretty loose over in Japan. After all, the Japanese used to sell items in this country that stated, Made In USA." They weren't lying. There is a Usa, Japan and the items were in fact made there. Needless to say this didn't fly with certain government departments. Both of those tubes could be made in Japan and I would say that the labeling is very similar and therefore done at the same location. You didn't mention if the construction was the same, but I assume that they are identical. This would rule out two different countries of origin if the seams on the top are identical and the plate construction, etc. I am hoping this one page will unlock, because it contained some United Electron information.

 

[RiverRatt]

Gotta keep posting some info or comments as this thread is slipping three or four pages back. I'm not used to go digging for it.

How's everyone's Matsushita's sounding? I like mine.

Ratt, have you ever heard of a Raytheon ARBL? What does that stand for? Lori is giving me two of these to make up for the bad Sonotone side-getter. She had a couple of pairs listed. I went with the one's that had a higher test score.

ARBL? Anyone?

I've been combing the net and I can't come up with much on ARBL tubes. There are plenty for sale but no explanation of the name. I found a picture of a Raytheon BP with AR stamped near the top of the tube. There's a thread at The Gear Page about MIJ tubes and most of the talk about ARBL Raytheons has to do with Raytheons with short gray plates and whether or not they were all MIJ. They were saying that Raytheon moved all 12AX7 production to Japan in 1962. Maybe it's just a factory code for the tube type, like I63 and I65 on Mullards and other Philips tubes. The examples I found had ARBL written near the top of the tube in a font similar to the G.E. tubes.

Here's a link to that thread. It rambles and never seems to say anything conclusive.

MIJ Raytheons??? - The Gear Page

 

[RiverRatt]

Well I did an extensive search. A hopeful page wouldn't load and that was disappointing. In one search, I found mention of a special audiophile tube that had a 9A pinout. It was a GE labeled United Electron. Now this does make a little sense in the fact that GE and Sylvania were the last two tube manufacturer's in the country. I don't know who else was making tubes in 77 or 78, but I know GE and Sylvania still were.

Now the rules for stating the country of origin was pretty loose over in Japan. After all, the Japanese used to sell items in this country that stated, Made In USA." They weren't lying. There is a Usa, Japan and the items were in fact made there. Needless to say this didn't fly with certain government departments. Both of those tubes could be made in Japan and I would say that the labeling is very similar and therefore done at the same location. You didn't mention if the construction was the same, but I assume that they are identical. This would rule out two different countries of origin if the seams on the top are identical and the plate construction, etc. I am hoping this one page will unlock, because it contained some United Electron information.

The construction appears to be identical. Same as the I63 Mullard as I mentioned. The seams make me think Matsushita. The ones I have always have four seams, with one angle being less distinct than the other. I'm thinking the tone of these is not quite up to par with the older Realistic Matsushitas I have.

 

[MartyStrat54]

I just wanted to say that I'm glad we have some new people floating around here in the thread. Although this thread's view numbers are up, the amount of posts has slowed down dramatically. I don't know if I need to do something or what, but we need to keep activity of this thread. For the most part, it is now three to four pages back from the current list of threads.

Whatever, I need to do something.

 

[guitarmartin416]

I can say, I'll give you a better update on my pre tubes, when I can figure out what the fuck I can do with my power tubes!!!!!!!! This amp is a pain in the ASS!!!!!!!!

 

[RiverRatt]

I'm going to have to find something to talk about other than new tubes. I've bought way too much. I think this year I may try to pick up another amp just so I'll have somewhere else to put everything.

 

[MartyStrat54]

Well Alan, thanks for your effort. As I said before, I think the end of the tube era is more of a mystery than the beginning of it. I don't think those guys are quite right about when Raytheon switched over to MIJ. I have 1964 Black Plates and I think that is the last year for them. A bunch were made in 1959 and 1962.

Now I have tubes that as I've said before have the semi-transparent ink that says in very small letters, "MIJ." Many of these tubes are labeled Raytheon and they are gray plates and "do not" have slant getters. I've had this for a while, way before the Matsushita craze hit. (Blame it on Solar.)

It drives me nuts when 70 year-old info is available on audio tube lore, but 40 year-old info is not available. It's like they didn't want people to know what they were up to back then or right now.

If I get off my butt, I will try to gather up some of the tubes that were MIJ, but came in the RCA or Raytheon box that said MIUSA. You pull the tube out and you say, "Ah great...nothing like an American made tube."

 

[Landshark]

I'll soon be able to help... Soon as that phat tax check comes in. I have a suprise guest to the preamp tube thread...

 

[SpiritOfTheAge]

Came across these 2 valves, out of curisoity i emailed the seller asking if they had been tested etc, his reply was

"STEVE WE DON'T TEST NEW VALVES. Be no good for a guitar amp, althought i gota couple of cheap Russian ones in my amp at the mo and unwanted noise they sure have but i quite like it. I would say theses are probably from Eastern Euro.
Just El cheapos.

- *ragandbone*"



He is selling a Philips and an RFT so for the money its a good deal, but he dont seem to clued up about them, and its to much of a crap shoot if they have not been tested.

 

[guitarmartin416]

So, I have a ribbed Telefunken....says ecc83, code is worn off. Strange part....says made in Germany. NOT WEST GERMANY! and has RTD printed on the side. Came out of same amp with my other Tele's that date to '64. Any ideas about this tube?

 

[RiverRatt]

Does it have a diamond bottom?

 

[guitarmartin416]

Does it have a diamond bottom?

yup.

 

[RiverRatt]

I wish I knew more about Telefunken. At some point Philips had a hand in their operation - Telefunken is listed in the Philips factory code book, but I've never seen a Telefunken with a pinched top like a Philips tube. BUT the Ei factory in Yugoslavia was owned by Philips and supposedly acquired the Telefunken equipment when they stopped production. Ei ECC83s with smooth plates are supposed to be copies of the Tele smooth plate, and they also have a pinched top like other Philips tubes. It's fun speculating about all this, but I don't think we're ever going to know the history behind some of these oddball tubes that pop up from time to time.

 

[guitarmartin416]

I wish I knew more about Telefunken. At some point Philips had a hand in their operation - Telefunken is listed in the Philips factory code book, but I've never seen a Telefunken with a pinched top like a Philips tube. BUT the Ei factory in Yugoslavia was owned by Philips and supposedly acquired the Telefunken equipment when they stopped production. Ei ECC83s with smooth plates are supposed to be copies of the Tele smooth plate, and they also have a pinched top like other Philips tubes. It's fun speculating about all this, but I don't think we're ever going to know the history behind some of these oddball tubes that pop up from time to time.

ya right. It keeps our minds movin though!!!!

 

[racko7566]

Heres a little smut of the three fine ladies I met in an ebay lounge, and to think they all went home with me for 66 bucks.

Marty got me hooked on black plates by raytheon and I was wondering if anyone knows why and what makes them black? And is the material conductive, and does it make a sonic difference, or is it just a process in manufacturing that is not for performance. Thanks for any info guys and gals.

 

[RiverRatt]

Nice. I wish I could find some that cheap. All the ones I see on eBay test low and sell high. For some reason or another, it seems popular to sell them in matched pairs, too. I can't figure that one out.

I know that Marty has posted the info about the black plates vs. gray plates before, but I can't find it. It's somewhere in this thread.

 

[MartyStrat54]

Heres a little smut of the three fine ladies I met in an ebay lounge, and to think they all went home with me for 66 bucks.

Marty got me hooked on black plates by raytheon and I was wondering if anyone knows why and what makes them black? And is the material conductive, and does it make a sonic difference, or is it just a process in manufacturing that is not for performance. Thanks for any info guys and gals.

Nice Tubes. Those are really close to being made in Japan. The Japanese tubes have the same label, except it says, "Select" instead of "Made In USA."

Tubes have a vacuum and the laws of physics work differently inside a vacuum. I will keep this simple. A black plate reflects heat better than a gray plate. A Raytheon Black Plate is made so much better than an RCA Black Plate. The materials used are like night and day. The plates are super thin nickle and the Raytheon coating "looks" like it is black metal. An RCA looks like someone painted it on.

Anything that has anything to do with what is going on inside a tube will affect tone. The coating on a Raytheon is super thin, yet it expels heat with ease and adds "mojo" to the tone of the tube. The gray formulas came out first and then the black plates. The gray plates won out as a cheaper alternative. Most engineers feel the gray plates have the better tone. Obviously there are more of them...yes?

 

[MartyStrat54]

Please see my post in the Power Tube thread. I didn't see it coming.

 

[MartyStrat54]

If you are one of the 41,470 viewers that have visited this thread, I welcome you. Please feel free to look around and don't hesitate to ask any questions. We have some new regulars here and anyone can become a regular. All you have to do is hang out here a little each day. Pretty soon you'll be talking tube talk like a pro.

If you have a specific amp that you want to put new tubes in, we can fix you up.

TooB PorN is highly appreciated. Any pictures are a big plus.

Show us your Brimars, Mullards, Bugle Boys, Valvo's and any other NOS tube.

I'd like to thank Racko again for his latest pictures of the heavenly Raytheon Black Plates. A trio of perfection.

 

[racko7566]

Thanks for the info Marty.