SV20H Effects Loop… WTF?

[Kendall124]

Howdy gang.
Could someone please explain to me the effects loop on my SV20H?
First, let me explain a couple of things. I understand that on my DSL 100 H the effects loop is between the preamp and the power amp section. Pretty simple. I use a Tech21 Boost/Delay in the loop when playing and when it’s solo time, I kick on the boost/delay and gloriously rise above everyone else in the band.

I try the same pedal in the SV’s loop and it does nothing except turn to mush. No volume boost at all. (Yes, the loop button on back is turned on)
Is it because this is NMV amplifier? And there’s no real separation between pre-and power? I’ve read many posts here that say an effects loop in an NMV is a waste of time.

Any explanation will be welcome. And remember, (example) I’m just the driver. I have a pit crew that handles everything that’s going on inside the guts of this thing. I simply play and report back to the crew what I’m hearing.

 

[scozz]

Yeah, effects loop seem to work best with MV amps.

 

[Frodebro]

The loop works as expected in my ST20, I’m running a Fractal FM9 in 4CM with it.

 

[guitarbilly74]

The problem with loops in Non Master Volume amps is that there is power amp distortion so delays/reverbs don't work well since there is distortion after the loop. Same with volume boosts, since the power amp is distorting, the boost will add more distortion and not volume.

It's normal and there is nothing wrong with your amp. If you need to run volume boosts and delays after a plexi you need to reamp it with something like a Fryette Power Station. Or run the amp clean and use pedals for gain.

 

[Biff Maloy]

100 watts vs 20 also. The SV probably has nothing left to give.

 

[Frodebro]

The problem with loops in Non Master Volume amps is that there is power amp distortion so delays/reverbs don't work well since there is distortion after the loop. Same with volume boosts, since the power amp is distorting, the boost will add more distortion and not volume.

It's normal and there is nothing wrong with your amp. If you need to run volume boosts and delays after a plexi you need to reamp it with something like a Fryette Power Station. Or run the amp clean and use pedals for gain.

More likely the phase inverter than the power tubes breaking up.

 

[guitarbilly74]

More likely the phase inverter than the power tubes breaking up.

Right. But the phase inverter is part of the power amp and after the loop. I didn't say power tubes.

 

[speyfly]

Not all amps will like a boost through the fx loop, the only pedals I connect to the loop is a delay and reverb, everything else in the front. That said a mid boost in the front, pure heaven...

 

[Kendall124]

I’m clean boosting the front with either a screamer or a DS-1. Tone is pretty good. I’m running the high input jumpered at 8 and low input at 4 and barely keeping up. Yes, we play loud.

 

[Kendall124]

100 watts vs 20 also. The SV probably has nothing left to give.

I think you may be spot on here.

 

[79 2203]

Try it without patching in the Normal channel

 

[nemo_kost]

I try the same pedal in the SV’s loop and it does nothing except turn to mush. No volume boost at all.

Do you play in 5Watt or 20Watt?
I got better results in 20Watt mode, I'll get a litte bit more headroom from the SV in 20W. Also, in 20W you can run the boost in front, at the end of the chain, and get a little better volume boost.

But in the end it's not to going to help much with an SV20, as others already said the poweramp distortion is going to always "mess up" with any volume boost you need.

 

[Ricky610]

Howdy gang.
Could someone please explain to me the effects loop on my SV20H?
First, let me explain a couple of things. I understand that on my DSL 100 H the effects loop is between the preamp and the power amp section. Pretty simple. I use a Tech21 Boost/Delay in the loop when playing and when it’s solo time, I kick on the boost/delay and gloriously rise above everyone else in the band.

I try the same pedal in the SV’s loop and it does nothing except turn to mush. No volume boost at all. (Yes, the loop button on back is turned on)
Is it because this is NMV amplifier? And there’s no real separation between pre-and power? I’ve read many posts here that say an effects loop in an NMV is a waste of time.

Any explanation will be welcome. And remember, (example) I’m just the driver. I have a pit crew that handles everything that’s going on inside the guts of this thing. I simply play and report back to the crew what I’m hearing.

The effects loop is basically for time based effects such as reverb , delay , chorus and such . Every pro guitarist I've talked to all say run dirt pedals and boost pedals through the frontend. I find that works best for me.

 

[Motorman-es]

The SV 20 does not like too much signal in the effects loop, what worked for me depending on the gig or the band I’m playing with is my TC line driver from 1991 in the loop. When it’s engaged I keep a tiny bit of signal reduction (gain just a little bit below unity) and if I want a lead boost, I turn the pedal off and get full signal. Worked fine with that amp in a live setting.

 

[Rich_S]

Oo! Oo! Oo! I know the answer!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6j0hOIu6LeM

Check out in particular the section on under-drive, around 13:00. With NMV amps, one trick is to set them up for your full-on lead tone, then use a pedal to cut the volume down if you need a quiet-but-dirty rhythm tone that sits underneath the band/vocal. Then for leads, you turn the pedal off, unleashing the little beast.

Paul Gilbert does some thing similar for a clean tone, using an EQ to brighten his tone but reduce the volume into the front of the amp, which works better for him that cleaning up with the guitar volume control.

 

[thesunship]

Oo! Oo! Oo! I know the answer!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6j0hOIu6LeM

Check out in particular the section on under-drive, around 13:00. With NMV amps, one trick is to set them up for your full-on lead tone, then use a pedal to cut the volume down if you need a quiet-but-dirty rhythm tone that sits underneath the band/vocal. Then for leads, you turn the pedal off, unleashing the little beast.

Paul Gilbert does some thing similar for a clean tone, using an EQ to brighten his tone but reduce the volume into the front of the amp, which works better for him that cleaning up with the guitar volume control.

As much as I hate doing it, this is the smart answer. Eq on to take out volume and certain frequencies which distort predominantly (low mids especially) and then off for solos. It's not ideal but it works.

 

[Biff Maloy]

It's a 20 watt amp guys. The op said it barely keeps up with his band as is. Making it quieter for rhythm is only going to put it back where he is now doing the under drive thing. I understand what he's talking about because I had the same experience when I had one. I liked the amp but in my unmiked situation it got buried. I could hear it but it had nothing left to give. And, this was into a 2061cx cabinet with 100db G12H Anniversaries. I got rid of it and replaced it with a Germino Lead 55LV. Absolutely not contest in both headroom and tone between the two. I dumped the 2525H also.

I agree though the effects loop in circuits like this, especially a 20 watt version, is not the best if the amp is cranked. It has no headroom. But a MV like his 100 watt DSL is appropriate for a subtle boost. I looked at his Tech21 Delay. It's only a 9db boost.

 

[Frodebro]

It's a 20 watt amp guys. The op said it barely keeps up with his band as is. Making it quieter for rhythm is only going to put it back where he is now doing the under drive thing. I understand what he's talking about because I had the same experience when I had one. I liked the amp but in my unmiked situation it got buried. I could hear it but it had nothing left to give. And, this was into a 2061cx cabinet with 100db G12H Anniversaries. I got rid of it and replaced it with a Germino Lead 55LV. Absolutely not contest in both headroom and tone between the two. I dumped the 2525H also.

I agree though the effects loop in circuits like this, especially a 20 watt version, is not the best if the amp is cranked. It has no headroom. But a MV like his 100 watt DSL is appropriate for a subtle boost. I looked at his Tech21 Delay. It's only a 9db boost.

Yep, if he's already running close to flat out there is nothing left in the tank when more is needed. This is true of any amp, not just the smaller ones. My band isn't that loud (we all got that out of our systems decades ago), so 20 watts is plenty for me. I brought my HDRX 20 to a rehearsal a while back, and I couldn't push it hard without being too loud.

 

[tallcoolone]

Check out in particular the section on under-drive, around 13:00. With NMV amps, one trick is to set them up for your full-on lead tone, then use a pedal to cut the volume down if you need a quiet-but-dirty rhythm tone that sits underneath the band/vocal. Then for leads, you turn the pedal off, unleashing the little beast.

Paul Gilbert does some thing similar for a clean tone, using an EQ to brighten his tone but reduce the volume into the front of the amp, which works better for him that cleaning up with the guitar volume control.

Yup—works like the volume knob on your guitar. Got turned on to this by reading an old guitar mag article from PG. I even have his HBE pedal which works but is not the best option I’ve found—I use the Thorpy Team Medic ATM.

That being said, if the amp doesn’t have the mustard to keep up on it’s own this solution won’t help

 

[Kendall124]

Thanks for all of the great info guys. And as @Biff Maloy said, I’ve run out of volume with this head. Knocking it back is just going the wrong direction.
So it’s back to my trusty DSL100H. It’s actually a better amp for the current band I’m in. Versatility is a must. A dimed Plexi tone works with half our set. The SV will go up for sale on OfferUp here in Seattle so if you’re local, look me up.

The Plexi dream continues.