The crazy story of the Legend playing a "180k" ohm humbucker for live and records without anyone noticing it

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pat_rocks

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After The death of this guitar player, Larry Dimarzio wrote a remembering tribute pdf about this guitarist and it passed almost unnoticed in the guitar community.

The story is so crazy that you begin to ask yourself if what happens to this guitar player is like not random but litteral fate and that his life was entirely dicted by it...

what if i told you that this guitar had a pickup reading 180k ohms :



it was probably used to record the albums 1984 and driver down the beat it solo too.

Well for many years many websites and many die hard fans believed that what was in this guitar was a custom custom from duncan because there have always been crazy rumors about him. however maricela juarez the lady who hand winds pickups at duncan's for the custom shop told an administrator on the forum that the pickup was a JB. Because the pickup sounded so different people didn't want to believe her, but she was right. This lady knows what she does.

Prior to all this questionning there was a Guy named larry dimarzio which had to work with music man to create a pickup for the new Van Halen guitar the Music Man Axis.

So Dimarzio went crazy when he entered eddie's studio he brought some test pickups with him and tested many of Eddie's gear. The kramer 5150 was the most comfortable guitar and it sounded really good even unplugged. Eddie told them that his actual favorite pickup was the one inside it. here comes the crazy story.

Eddie was known to disassemble pickups and improve them his own ways. For example he was one of the firsts to wax pot humbuckers. Another thing he used to do was to shield the pickup coils with copper foil... Yes...

Eddie told Dimarzio that once the pickup caught the high E string and that it literraly changed the tone and that eddie liked it better that way...

well the story becomes even wilder haha here is what larry dimarzio said after inspecting this JB :

"Ed wanted me to make the new DiMarzio bridge pickup to be as good or better than the damaged JB. After assuring him I wouldn’t change or d age it, I asked Ed if he would let me remove the pickup to measure it.

The DC resistance of a JB reads about 16.4K Ohms. Ed’s pickup measured 180K Ohms! Measuring the coils individually produced a normal reading on one coil (8K Ohms) and about 160K Ohms on the other. (Something peculiar happened when they were connected.) I think the 160K coil, being neither open nor shorted out, was functioning as an inductor as well as a standard coil. The damaged coil was clearly functioning, as the pickup still cancelled 60-cycle hum as well.

When we compared it with a stock JB in one of the Music Man prototypes, Ed didn’t like it as much. The damaged JB sounded more solid and focused, especially in the mids, and the highs were fatter.

Larry DiMarzio: When Steve told me that the pickup still worked but was reading 180K, I said, “Great, we’re going to build Eddie Van Halen a broken pickup?”

after this they made many pickups to test for the axis and dudley sterling and Steve lukather went along to test them with eddie. They couldn't chose but finaly lukather had a preference and went with it.

Here is the PDF about the whole story and it contains beautifull pictures of eddies guitar vault :

 
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freefrog

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FWIW, the sentence about a coil functioning as an inductor is probably a wrong transcription of what Steve Blucher said and/or actually found.

Reason: any coil IS by nature an inductor and a pickup designer is meant to know that. Furthermore, an inductor in series with a pickup will never give a so high DCR reading.

What happens in such cases is that the wire in the coil is cut but stays aligned with itself, becoming effectively a capacitor in series with an inductor. Hence the super high reading or absence of measurement when it comes to DCR but the possibility to read a consistent value on a capacitance meter. Generally, the related capacitance is around 4nF.

Consequence: this feature can be mimiced by a simple 3,9nF or 4.7nF capacitor in series with the PU of your choice (but it won't allow any tone control to work normally, as the tone pot will or would behave like a 2d volume pot. Ed couldn't realize this since his guitar had only a volume control).

Careless operators or adventurous tinkerers being not rare among guitarists, I've repaired my share of humbuckers with this problem. I've electrical measurement of their resonant frequencies somewhere in my archives. The capacitive coil always works as a high pass / bass-cut filter. Hence what Blucher said: "The damaged JB sounded more solid
and focused, especially in the mids".


Last but not least and for the record, it's not the only case of "capacitive pickup" in musical history: the Telecaster nicknamed "Nancy" by Roy Buchanan had the same "issue" and don Mare (boutique winder) commercialized a clone of it, after having recommended the series capacitor trick that I evoke above: https://www.tdpri.com/threads/pickup-mod.289815/

Hope this testimonial to be helpful... :)
 
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pat_rocks

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FWIW, the sentence about a coil functioning as an inductor is probably a wrong transcription of what Steve Blucher said and/or actually found.

Reason: any coil IS by nature an inductor and a pickup designer is meant to know that. Furthermore, an inductor in series with a pickup will never give a so high DCR reading.

What happens in such cases is that the wire in the coil is cut but stays aligned with itself, becoming effectively a capacitor. Hence the super high reading or absence of measurement when it comes to DCR but the possibility to read a consistent value on a capacitance meter. Generally, the related capacitance is around 4nF.

Consequence: this feature can be mimiced by a simple 3,9nF or 4.7nF capacitor in series with the PU of your choice (but it won't allow any tone control to work normally, as the tone pot will or would behave like a 2d volume pot. Ed couldn't realize this since his guitar had only a volume control).

Careless operators or adventurous tinkerers being not rare among guitarists, I've repaired my share of humbuckers with this problem. I've electrical measurement of their resonant frequencies somewhere in my archives. The capacitive coil always works as a high pass / bass-cut filter. Hence what Blucher said: "The damaged JB sounded more solid
and focused, especially in the mids".
.

Last but not least and for the record, it's not the only case of "capacitive pickup" in musical history: the Telecaster nicknamed "Nancy" by Roy Buchanan had the same "issue" and don Mare (boutique winder) commercialized a clone of it, after having recommended the series capacitor trick that I evoke above: https://www.tdpri.com/threads/pickup-mod.289815/

Hope this testimonial to be helpful... :)
thanks for making it clear. I see this as a huge potential for a future pickup. I think i'll try to take a jb appart and remove a coil and play with caps :D !
 

freefrog

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For the record, I share below the electrically induced frequency response of two identical Gibson PU's in a guitar that I've repaired a while back.

One pickup was intact and reading its expected 7.5k. The other was damaged: it worked but had no DCR reading. It exhibited only a readable capacitive value with the related "bass cut" effect, as one can see on the screen (from the green and red lines). it was also a bit noisier.

I've other screenshots showing the same effect of the same problem on other PU's... This last decade, I've even repaired TWO capacitive humbuckers for a same careless player (LOL).

IntactVsDamagedCapacitiveHB.jpg

Regarding series capacitors, I've devoted a whole topic to this question there:


FWIW. Once again, hope to be useful. :)
 
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playloud

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RIP Eddie, but I have to admit I find it hard to suspend disbelief when it comes to just about anything involving his equipment.

There's an old saying in Tennessee - I know it's in Texas, probably in Tennessee...
 

tallcoolone

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I thought I read the opposite--that when they tested that pickup it barely registered it was so underwound??
 

johnconk

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FWIW, the sentence about a coil functioning as an inductor is probably a wrong transcription of what Steve Blucher said and/or actually found.

Reason: any coil IS by nature an inductor and a pickup designer is meant to know that. Furthermore, an inductor in series with a pickup will never give a so high DCR reading.

What happens in such cases is that the wire in the coil is cut but stays aligned with itself, becoming effectively a capacitor in series with an inductor. Hence the super high reading or absence of measurement when it comes to DCR but the possibility to read a consistent value on a capacitance meter. Generally, the related capacitance is around 4nF.

Consequence: this feature can be mimiced by a simple 3,9nF or 4.7nF capacitor in series with the PU of your choice (but it won't allow any tone control to work normally, as the tone pot will or would behave like a 2d volume pot. Ed couldn't realize this since his guitar had only a volume control).

Careless operators or adventurous tinkerers being not rare among guitarists, I've repaired my share of humbuckers with this problem. I've electrical measurement of their resonant frequencies somewhere in my archives. The capacitive coil always works as a high pass / bass-cut filter. Hence what Blucher said: "The damaged JB sounded more solid
and focused, especially in the mids".


Last but not least and for the record, it's not the only case of "capacitive pickup" in musical history: the Telecaster nicknamed "Nancy" by Roy Buchanan had the same "issue" and don Mare (boutique winder) commercialized a clone of it, after having recommended the series capacitor trick that I evoke above

Hope this testimonial to be helpful... :)
How many volts should the 3.9nF capacitor be? Are any particular ones better than others that you recommend
 

Beryllium-9

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Seymour Duncan has a different story and with the lawsuit that Ed filed against him, it is not only factual, it is more believable than Larry's alleged experience. You can bet your sweet ass that LD would have never published a story like that if Ed was still around. One thing that I respected about EVH, he protected his own with a fierce vengeance and he wasn't afraid to slug someone in the mouth. Seems like LD needs just that..
 

johnconk

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The Larry DiMarzio story of him taking the pickup out of the 5150 Kramer to meter it? If that’s the story you’re referring to, it was published in Guitar World in 1990 when Ed was very much alive
 

freefrog

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How many volts should the 3.9nF capacitor be? Are any particular ones better than others that you recommend

The value in volts doesn't matter: a passive guitar pickup rarely spits more than 1V and many P..A..F. style humbuckers deliver less than 500mV, especially in bridge position...

The kind of cap used is not really important either in this case. A generic film capacitor should do the job.


NOTE - If you want to use a regular tone pot with this mod, it's still possible but the regular tone pot must be wired just at the output of the pickup, before the series capacitor... and a "no load" tone pot set @ 10/10 would give exactly the same than no tone control at all, like in the Frankenstrat. "No load" pots are simple to DIY by modifying an existing potentionmeter:


FWIW. HTH.
 

johnconk

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The link is from 2021?
Yes
The link is from 2021?
Yes, Ed actually let him take the pickup out of the guitar to examine and try to figure out what was going on. I’m not sure he did, but Jim DeCola who designed the Wolfgang guitar and worked for Peavey, actually figured out what happened and made a duplicate pickup. He won’t divulge what actually happened, but freefrog has explained it
 

johnconk

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The value in volts doesn't matter: a passive guitar pickup rarely spits more than 1V and many P..A..F. style humbuckers deliver less than 500mV, especially in bridge position...

The kind of cap used is not really important either in this case. A generic film capacitor should do the job.


NOTE - If you want to use a regular tone pot with this mod, it's still possible but the regular tone pot must be wired just at the output of the pickup, before the series capacitor... and a "no load" tone pot set @ 10/10 would give exactly the same than no tone control at all, like in the Frankenstrat. "No load" pots are simple to DIY by modifying an existing potentionmeter:



FWIW. HTH.
Thanks… gonna try this out..
 
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