Troubleshooting Tone on a 78 JMP 2203

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Lucky

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Hey everyone, I'm new to this forum, actually this is my first post. I have a 100 Watt Master Volume JMP head that works fine. But the tone is just nowhere near as wonderful as it was when I got it. So let me explain...

I bought this head about 4 years ago off of e-bay. When I got it there was no problem with it and it sounded great. Now, I play hard rock music locally so I wanted more gain. I did some researching and saw countless mods, but I didn't want to mod this head. So I found the next best thing which is a Soldano Hot Mod that fits right into the second preamp socket. Once I did this, the amp turned into a monster! It sounded incredible and there were no issued for about 6 months. I also retubed it and had it biased when I first got it.

Around the 6 or 7 month of constantly gigging with this thing almost every weekend, I took it to a show plugged it in and it blew a fuse. Now I have used Marshall amps for about 17 years, so I figured that the tubes were pretty much done so I took it to the shop the next day and had them retube it again, just to find out that the problem was the power transformer was gone. Well I asked the tech to go ahead and order the new one, and check all of the components to make sure everything was good. He called me up a couple of weeks later and said it was fixed and to come and get it.

When I got it back he had told me that he had replaced a few things aside from the transformer. Now, you have to excuse my ignorance when it comes to electronics because I really don't know much about it. So he tells me that all of my filter caps were toast so he replaced them all. And for those of you that don't know, a master volume JMP has 6 of them. Now I remember the blue ones that were in it before I put it in the shop, and when I got it back, I had Black ones made by JJ that were roughly half the size of the originals. He also had replaced these little electronic pieces that are soldered on each power tube socket, and said the old ones did'nt match the ohms they were supposed to have. Like I said, Ignorance! HA! The original ones were shaped like a bigger diode (I think) and the new ones where rectangle. That was all and I have never had a problem with this guy or the store he woks for before, so I took him on his word and took it home.

A couple of days later, i took it to practice and it played fine. But it was a little thinner sounding in the mids and the highs are really piercing. So I adjusted to EQ setting to accomidate but it still lacked the ass that it used to have. But I didn't take it back to the shop because I figured that they were new parts and had to be broke in.

Well, I have gotten somewhat used to the tone until started reading up on these amps on different forums. And if I understand this correctly, all of the things that were replaced will affect the overall tone. Is this in fact true, or should I just quit my bitching? Any help will be greatly appreciated.

Thanks a lot,
Lucky
 

Jonathan Wilder

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Hey everyone, I'm new to this forum, actually this is my first post. I have a 100 Watt Master Volume JMP head that works fine. But the tone is just nowhere near as wonderful as it was when I got it. So let me explain...

I bought this head about 4 years ago off of e-bay. When I got it there was no problem with it and it sounded great. Now, I play hard rock music locally so I wanted more gain. I did some researching and saw countless mods, but I didn't want to mod this head. So I found the next best thing which is a Soldano Hot Mod that fits right into the second preamp socket. Once I did this, the amp turned into a monster! It sounded incredible and there were no issued for about 6 months. I also retubed it and had it biased when I first got it.

Around the 6 or 7 month of constantly gigging with this thing almost every weekend, I took it to a show plugged it in and it blew a fuse. Now I have used Marshall amps for about 17 years, so I figured that the tubes were pretty much done so I took it to the shop the next day and had them retube it again, just to find out that the problem was the power transformer was gone. Well I asked the tech to go ahead and order the new one, and check all of the components to make sure everything was good. He called me up a couple of weeks later and said it was fixed and to come and get it.

When I got it back he had told me that he had replaced a few things aside from the transformer. Now, you have to excuse my ignorance when it comes to electronics because I really don't know much about it. So he tells me that all of my filter caps were toast so he replaced them all. And for those of you that don't know, a master volume JMP has 6 of them. Now I remember the blue ones that were in it before I put it in the shop, and when I got it back, I had Black ones made by JJ that were roughly half the size of the originals. He also had replaced these little electronic pieces that are soldered on each power tube socket, and said the old ones did'nt match the ohms they were supposed to have. Like I said, Ignorance! HA! The original ones were shaped like a bigger diode (I think) and the new ones where rectangle. That was all and I have never had a problem with this guy or the store he woks for before, so I took him on his word and took it home.

A couple of days later, i took it to practice and it played fine. But it was a little thinner sounding in the mids and the highs are really piercing. So I adjusted to EQ setting to accomidate but it still lacked the ass that it used to have. But I didn't take it back to the shop because I figured that they were new parts and had to be broke in.

Well, I have gotten somewhat used to the tone until started reading up on these amps on different forums. And if I understand this correctly, all of the things that were replaced will affect the overall tone. Is this in fact true, or should I just quit my bitching? Any help will be greatly appreciated.

Thanks a lot,
Lucky

The JJ filter caps are good filter caps. That's what I primarily use in all my builds along with F&T caps. Any amp that's more than 20 years old and has never had a filter cap job should definitely undergo one so kudos to your tech for making that call.

The part he replaced on the valve sockets was the screen resistors. They should be a 1K 5 Watt type. Sounds like they are based on your description of them (white square block).

I'm curious to know if anything else was replaced...like maybe he did some sort of mod that he never told you about. Would be nice to see some pics of the inside to verify this. Anyway you can open up the amp and take some pics of the insides and post them up?
 

Lucky

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Sorry it took so long, i was out of town. I'm going to attemp to load up pictures...
 

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Lucky

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Here are some more...
 

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Lucky

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I'm curious to know if anything else was replaced...like maybe he did some sort of mod that he never told you about. Would be nice to see some pics of the inside to verify this. Anyway you can open up the amp and take some pics of the insides and post them up?

The only other thing that was replaced was the Power Transformer...
 

Jonathan Wilder

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From the pics it was actually the OUTPUT transformer that he replaced. That looks to be one of the ones they use in the newer 2203 reissue amps which sound NOTHING like the originals. On an amp like this I would've DEFINITELY gone with a Mercury Magnetics replacement 100 watt plexi transformer as it would've been pretty much the same transformer used on the later JMPs. I'm thinking this is what caused the huge difference in tone that you were hearing.

I'd see if you could get your old OT back from your tech. Another option is to send your blown one to me and I can have Mercury Magnetics rewind you an exact duplicate of your old one.

Other than that the internal circuitry appears to be bone stock.
 

Lucky

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From the pics it was actually the OUTPUT transformer that he replaced. That looks to be one of the ones they use in the newer 2203 reissue amps which sound NOTHING like the originals. On an amp like this I would've DEFINITELY gone with a Mercury Magnetics replacement 100 watt plexi transformer as it would've been pretty much the same transformer used on the later JMPs. I'm thinking this is what caused the huge difference in tone that you were hearing.

I'd see if you could get your old OT back from your tech. Another option is to send your blown one to me and I can have Mercury Magnetics rewind you an exact duplicate of your old one.

Other than that the internal circuitry appears to be bone stock.

Thank you Mr. Wilder, but unfortunately, its been quite a while since this went down so i know that the original is gone. But lets just say that I took it back to the same guy and said I would like to have a Mercury Magnetics upgrade, would he be able to do it without the original OT?
 

Jonathan Wilder

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Thank you Mr. Wilder, but unfortunately, its been quite a while since this went down so i know that the original is gone. But lets just say that I took it back to the same guy and said I would like to have a Mercury Magnetics upgrade, would he be able to do it without the original OT?

Well the only thing your original OT would've been needed for was to have MM wind you an EXACT DUPLICATE of the amp's original OT. Since transformers were fairly inconsistent back then this ideally would've allowed them to exactly copy the exact transformer that came out of your amp.

However, all hope is not lost. Mercury's transformer upgrades for your amp are copied from transformers that came out of some of the absolute best sounding vintage Marshalls. They went through a whole pile of Marshalls until they found the ones that had THE tone, and copied the transformers from those models.

I just checked their site and it looks like they make a "Late 70s higher gain" model, which is what your JMP 2203 would effectively be. I will call MM tomorrow and ask them exactly which one they would recommend for your amp.

Also, if you order from me I can get it to you a little cheaper than what MM will sell it to you for as well.
 

ironlung40

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Cool info. Mr. Wilder, is there a way to test caps (for a competent do it yourselfer) before replacing them. Specifically, can one use an multimeter, or other tool....would the caps have to be removed from the circuit first, etc. ?

I have a couple of older JCM 800's and a JMP 2203, and I know now is a good time for cap job.

Also, on these older amps, if a tube or cap fails, does it most likely mean doom for your transformer?

thanks.
 

Jonathan Wilder

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Cool info. Mr. Wilder, is there a way to test caps (for a competent do it yourselfer) before replacing them. Specifically, can one use an multimeter, or other tool....would the caps have to be removed from the circuit first, etc. ?

I have a couple of older JCM 800's and a JMP 2203, and I know now is a good time for cap job.

Also, on these older amps, if a tube or cap fails, does it most likely mean doom for your transformer?

thanks.

No there's not really any way to test caps with a multimeter without rigging up some sort of charging circuit. And for the record, caps more than 20 years old should be discarded and replaced no matter what any test shows.

If one blows, it shouldn't do anything to the output transformer, but if the HT fuse or the diodes don't fry in time it definitely can damage a power transformer and/or a choke depending on which cap happens to blow, just like a shorted car battery can fry an alternator. A shorted cap can take other filter caps with it as well.
 

Joey Voltage

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I would replace them every ten years. Part of the tone difference is probably the caps. You might have gotten used to drying ones, which will be somewhat mellower than fresh ones. The JJ's have a very Low ESR too, which may account for some of the "detail".

OT's are a very subjective thing. There was an OT shootout posted at Granger Amps once upon a time of four OT manufacturers, Testing Plexi/2203 OT's. I think it is still floating around somewhere's.
 

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