Tube brand recommendation for 1987x

[ljberbi]

Hey guys, just picked up a great used 1987XL, 50 watt plexi re-issue head. Has the original Marshall tubes in it. How about some opinions on best power and pre-amp tube brands for this tone monster. Some which I am considering are as follows. I have had some JJ's in many amps but would really like some input on these other power tube brands (EL34). Thanks !

Electro-harmonix 6CA7-EH
JJ EL34
Sovtek EL34WXT
Tung-Sol EL34B
Svetlana EL34

 

[thrawn86]

Lot of our guys like the Winged C's ( =C= ).

 

[MartyStrat54]

Here are some I recommend.

1.EH6CA7-Close to sounding like an NOS tube. These have a tight bottom end and mids with articulate highs.

2.Groove Tubes EL34M-Their Mullard copy. One of the few tubes from GT I'll recommend. Very robust sounding.

3.JJE34L-Similar to the EH6CA7, but more pronounced highs. A rugged tube. Made for high volume scenarios.

4.The "real" Winged =C= (SED)-Smooth sounding tube. Approaches a tone similar to the RFT, but not quite there. Probably one of the most popular EL34's.

NOS

1.Sylvania 6CA7 Fat Boys. True, accurate notes from low to high volume. The standard tube of Eddie Van Halen since his first album.

2.RFT-Still available as a brand new tube. These beautiful slim EL34's will do it all. Great sound out of a German made tube. Smooth and silky, or crunchy and wild. Great range of tones. The last of the real McCoys.

Preamp

1.Tung-Sol High Gain/Low Noise V1
2.Mullard RI High Gain
3.EH Regular 12AX7

 

[ljberbi]

Guys, great tube advice. Would this be the "winged-C" you are talking about ? Is this the "real" version you mention ? This is what "the tube store".com sells.


Winged "C" (SED) EL34


The SED EL34 / 6CA7 tube is a power pentode intended for ultra linear audio frequency power amplification service in either pentode or triode connection and single or push-pull/parallel tube applications. The SED EL34 plate is made from a laminated material that improves heat transfer and has superior performance under overload conditions (often seen with guitar amplifiers).

From our review of this EL34 tube: "If you want one EL34 tube that will do anything the Winged "C"/SED is money well spent. There is ample bass response but it is firm and controlled. The mids are smooth and the top end shimmers. Nice swirling harmonic content. The construction of the tube is outstanding and I feel it contributes to the overall performance. Lots of clean headroom from this tube with a smooth transition into breakup."

Other SED tubes EL34 Types


Availability: Usually ships within 24 hours.

SV-EL34$59.95Price is for a matched pair.

 

[MartyStrat54]

Yeah that's the one. As long as it has this logo, you're safe.

 

[ljberbi]

Some additional questions Marty, by the way this forum is great ! If I buy new EL34's from a supplier whether they be winged C's, EH, or whatever, do I have to select a bias/breakup rating ? For example the last JJ's I bought were rated 27 and the range was like 25 to 30. Is this the case with all power tubes in that you need to choose a rating based on your breakup preference ? Also, with pre-amp tubes I can just switch them out myself right ? Just making sure that replacing pre-amp tubes requires no adjustments. And finally, my 1987X came from the factory with "marshall" tubes. I know marshall does not make tubes and I find nothing on the net that indicates whos tubes they use. Any idea which brand of tubes they use ? Thanks !

 

[Brett Blackmore]

Hi,

I had JJs for a while, which were ok but then tried some Tone Bones (EL84) which made more natural distortion. However, after a while I decided they were too much 'Vox'-like for me. I lost some Marshall plexi sounds. Then my keyboarder put some Telefunken EL34 in and biased them at around 32 mA - middle warm I think - or is 38mA more likely? Anyway after tweaking during a band rehearsal we found a sweet spot!

You need to bias the tubes within Marshalls recommended bias range but your ears must tell you what is right. Set them to a lower value and then play the guitar for 10 minutes - then set them to highest limits and play again - you should notice a slight difference. A band rehearsal is a good opportunity to do this. Select what your ears prefer. However, a very hot value will wear the valves out faster...

Cheers Brett

 

[Michael1987xl]

If you want to "fatten" the sound of your 1987 up a bit, don't be afraid to try a pair of the Gold Lion KT77's instead of a set of EL34's; they are a direct swap. It will require a re-bias, but so will any set of new power tubes, so you're not buying yourself any additional work or problems there.

Believe me when I tell you that you won't lose any of the high end, but the mids and lows will have much more punch and the overall warmth is excellent.

 

[MartyStrat54]

Some additional questions Marty, by the way this forum is great ! If I buy new EL34's from a supplier whether they be winged C's, EH, or whatever, do I have to select a bias/breakup rating ? For example the last JJ's I bought were rated 27 and the range was like 25 to 30. Is this the case with all power tubes in that you need to choose a rating based on your breakup preference ? Also, with pre-amp tubes I can just switch them out myself right ? Just making sure that replacing pre-amp tubes requires no adjustments. And finally, my 1987X came from the factory with "marshall" tubes. I know marshall does not make tubes and I find nothing on the net that indicates whos tubes they use. Any idea which brand of tubes they use ? Thanks !

Not all manufacturers use a rating. I know that some do. The problem is that the ratings are not standard. One companies 25 might be another companies 8. The lower values denote a softer vacuum on the tube. If this is the sound you desire than remember it comes at a price. Low vacuum tubes wear out quicker. Again, if that's your sound and you are willing to buy tubes often then go for it.

Picking a range is not a requirement and as I said, you may not even get a chance to pick a range. Recently I ordered two quads of EH6CA7's and no one asked me what range I wanted, the tubes were just sent and each quad was rated slightly different.

Another thing that sort of blows the rating system away. If we were talking about 1959's cranked full blast, there might be some merit in power tubes with a different "range." However, most modern amps depend on the preamp stage to develop the distortion and the "clean" power tubes reproduce it.

Even in my JMP 2203, the type of preamp tubes I use play a more important role than the power tubes. I have high gain NOS in the gain stages and it makes a huge difference on this amp.

Now speaking of preamp tubes, they can be changed without any worries. I encourage people to try different tubes. For a beginner, I do recommend that they amp be put on "Standby" or turned off before swapping preamp tubes.

In most Marshall's the tubes they use are either Sovteks with red labels or Shuguangs with white labels. There is a lot better than this. See the suggestions I made ^^^up above.

One other thing. I just noticed that you have a 1987X. So I will have to back up a little on what I said that pertained to say a DSL/TSL. To get a crunch sound at lower volume you will need a high output pickup on your guitar. Then I would recommend say a Groove Tube EL34M with a 3 rating. (I normally don't recommend GT, but this is a real solid tube.) Finally, high gain tubes in V1 and V2. This will get you more crunch out of the guitar straight to the amp scenario.

Can I ask what sort of music you play?

 

[ljberbi]

I play multiple styles, mostly straight ahead rock and blues. My tube rating experience comes from buying tubes for my fender amps where my tech explained that tubes with a "lower rating" on the manufacturers scale break up sooner. I favored this because we were playing thru a deluxe reverb barely breathing and miking it through the house. I do own another Marshall, 4210 50 watt combo however this 1987x I just bought is my first real Marshall I guess you could say. It is 5 years old and has the original tubes in it so I am going to re-tube it to start fresh. I believe I am going to go with the Tung-Sol hi gain pre-amp tubes you recommended for starters. I have some friends who rave about those. I notice you can buy pre-amp tubes in matched pairs if you pay a little more. Should I buy matched pairs ? I know this is a must with power tubes but how about pre-amp tubes ? Also, my 1987x takes 3 12AX7's and the matched pairs are sold two only. Guess you cannot match them with 3 ? Thanks for the advice !

 

[Michael1987xl]

If you contact the guys over at The Tube Store and tell them what you need for the pre-amp, they will put together a set of 3 matched tubes for you, no problem. They'll give you a good price, too. They've done it for me plenty of times.

 

[MartyStrat54]

It's not a necessity to have perfectly matched preamp tubes. If you want to go that route you can. I would get a Tung-Sol "low noise/high gain" for V1 and a Tung-Sol "high gain for V2. If you don't mind spending a little extra, then get both of them low noise. Then you just need like a regular EH for the PI (V3). It does not need to be balanced. In fact the guys over at the Preamp Tube thread all use lopsided tubes. This produces an asymmetrical sine wave and it is rich in even order harmonics. I personally use a high gain, lopsided PI tube in all of my amps.

If you have other questions, feel free to PM me.

 

[ljberbi]

Marty, question for you. With the EH power tubes for example, why would one want a 6CA7 instead of an EL34 ? I notice the tube store has both. I have made a decision to try the Tung-Sol tubes for pre-amp and I am kicking around going with the winged-C or EH power tubes, just trying to understand the advantage to the 6CA7 over the EL34 with the electro-harmonix. Thanks

 

[MartyStrat54]

Okay. A 6CA7 is the American version of the EL34. Although they are of different designs they both have very close electrical properties. In fact, when the 6CA7 came out, EL34's were marked "EL34/6CA7."

The EH6CA7 is a copy of a Sylvania Fat Boy. As I said, it is very close especially at higher volume levels. I'm running two sets of these right now. I think you would like it.