Tubes..glorious tubes...(ramble..talking out my gear dilemma)

[jeffb]

Finally got moved to NC, and after a few days of chaos, got a few minutes to unbox my amp/s and set them up after over a year and a half in storage. I've got a whole loft to myself for my gear.

Glorious tube tone. I missed it.

Its been so long I forgot just how loud the ORi20 needs to be to give up the goods. Even in low power mode, it will be too loud for the neighbors once the master is up enough to start getting some gain. So I hooked it up to my Rockcrusher, put the amp on full power and ended up in studio mode (most amount of attenuation), which is quiet enough I think (wife said it wasn't too loud), and it was very nice to have some dynamics and singing sustain (forgot how good my # Les Paul really is after so long playing through the CODE25) .

But it was not really optimal for what I want to hear. It's just amp, no real speaker interaction. I then tried it in mid power with less attenuation, and it was a different sound and feel, maybe better. Then I tried low power with very little attenuation which got me in the pushed right to the edge but not ready to blow up tone zone I wanted but the speakers are just not doing anything at all so it feels awful. Boost mode did not really help anywhere- it just made for a flubby fizzy mess.

So I have to revisit some things I'd rather not do, but have little choice otherwise.

Perhaps a OD or Boost pedal of some sort...

Maybe a MIAB like the Distortron, Small Box, Animal, or SL Drive into a barely breaking up attenuated ORI20H...

Maybe my Class 5 with the right pedal (treble booster?) and also attenuated...

Maybe I'll just continue to play my CODE 25 primarily, though it was so apparent how much better tubes feel, and how much better sustain/dynamics are with the tubes. It's good for really low volumes and headphones, but 1s and 0s just aren't the same. Funny what we can get used to over time.

I had forgotten about and found in storage a VOX VXT20 modelling amp I had bought several years ago which I had given up on- it has one of those weird cheap outboard power supplies and did not like my old house's electrical quirks. It's got an OK plexi model which I made a clip of HERE, years ago.

Maybe a 1W DSL?

Maybe a Purplewind Nano head?

I really don't know.

As a first step, I'm inclined to drop my 55HZ back into my cab, wire it up for that one speaker (eliminate a G12M) as the H mags seem to like low volumes better than any M20/25, and go from there. Ill throw some blankets in the cab. I have a few boosts (Xotic EP boost, Dunlop Echoplex boost, Bad Monkey), and a Bogner LaGrange to get me started as well on the pedal front.

Why can't neighbors learn to live with cranked Marshalls?

 

[scozz]

More gain than I prefer but it sounds great man, nice playing too bud!

Glad you’re settled in, not so good about the amp situation though.

Wait man, you’ve just moved in and the neighbors are complaining already dude?! Lol!

 

[fitz]

Its been so long I forgot just how loud the ORi20 needs to be to give up the goods. Even in low power mode, it will be too loud for the neighbors once the master is up enough to start getting some gain. So I hooked it up to my Rockcrusher, put the amp on full power and ended up in studio mode (most amount of attenuation), which is quiet enough I think (wife said it wasn't too loud), and it was very nice to have some dynamics and singing sustain (forgot how good my # Les Paul really is after so long playing through the CODE25) .

But it was not really optimal for what I want to hear. It's just amp, no real speaker interaction. I then tried it in mid power with less attenuation, and it was a different sound and feel, maybe better. Then I tried low power with very little attenuation which got me in the pushed right to the edge but not ready to blow up tone zone I wanted but the speakers are just not doing anything at all so it feels awful. Boost mode did not really help anywhere- it just made for a flubby fizzy mess.

So I have to revisit some things I'd rather not do, but have little choice otherwise.

Perhaps a OD or Boost pedal of some sort...

Congratulations on finally getting to your new place.
I've compared my O20H cranked but attenuated with the BadCat re-amp to using pedals at low volume and I can get very close.
Neither method is anything like when the amp is moving air.
I always leave the amp in full power mode at any volume.
My favorite low volume pedals are BD-2 out front & GE-7 in the loop.
EQ in the loop is essential for low volume playing - IMO.
And I've found that I like the boost at low volume, but I shut it off when I'm scaring the cats.

Edit: I also like a little slow rate chorus & mild reverb in the loop at low volume.
I think it helps give that feel of a loud amp bouncing sound around the room, but I shut those off when cranking.

 

[paul-e-mann]

Finally got moved to NC, and after a few days of chaos, got a few minutes to unbox my amp/s and set them up after over a year and a half in storage. I've got a whole loft to myself for my gear.

Glorious tube tone. I missed it.

Its been so long I forgot just how loud the ORi20 needs to be to give up the goods. Even in low power mode, it will be too loud for the neighbors once the master is up enough to start getting some gain. So I hooked it up to my Rockcrusher, put the amp on full power and ended up in studio mode (most amount of attenuation), which is quiet enough I think (wife said it wasn't too loud), and it was very nice to have some dynamics and singing sustain (forgot how good my # Les Paul really is after so long playing through the CODE25) .

But it was not really optimal for what I want to hear. It's just amp, no real speaker interaction. I then tried it in mid power with less attenuation, and it was a different sound and feel, maybe better. Then I tried low power with very little attenuation which got me in the pushed right to the edge but not ready to blow up tone zone I wanted but the speakers are just not doing anything at all so it feels awful. Boost mode did not really help anywhere- it just made for a flubby fizzy mess.

So I have to revisit some things I'd rather not do, but have little choice otherwise.

Perhaps a OD or Boost pedal of some sort...

Maybe a MIAB like the Distortron, Small Box, Animal, or SL Drive into a barely breaking up attenuated ORI20H...

Maybe my Class 5 with the right pedal (treble booster?) and also attenuated...

Maybe I'll just continue to play my CODE 25 primarily, though it was so apparent how much better tubes feel, and how much better sustain/dynamics are with the tubes. It's good for really low volumes and headphones, but 1s and 0s just aren't the same. Funny what we can get used to over time.

I had forgotten about and found in storage a VOX VXT20 modelling amp I had bought several years ago which I had given up on- it has one of those weird cheap outboard power supplies and did not like my old house's electrical quirks. It's got an OK plexi model which I made a clip of HERE, years ago.

Maybe a 1W DSL?

Maybe a Purplewind Nano head?

I really don't know.

As a first step, I'm inclined to drop my 55HZ back into my cab, wire it up for that one speaker (eliminate a G12M) as the H mags seem to like low volumes better than any M20/25, and go from there. Ill throw some blankets in the cab. I have a few boosts (Xotic EP boost, Dunlop Echoplex boost, Bad Monkey), and a Bogner LaGrange to get me started as well on the pedal front.

Why can't neighbors learn to live with cranked Marshalls?

I dont think the ORI20 is all that, it wasnt possible to dial in good tones at reasonable volumes so away it went. Get something classic it will have better dynamics at low volume, I have a 1959, 2204 and SV20H and they all sound great at low volume and take pedals well. I have a 5E3 coming next week another loud amp I'll have fun taming to reasonable home volumes!

 

[Biff Maloy]

If you can swing it pick up a 50th Anniversary Marshall. I have a 50 watt Plexi and yes even at lower volume it is still more of everything but I still use those amps for tube tone around the house more than anything. I live in a neighborhood where everybody has several acres. Volume isn't an issue other than I personally don't need loud as f..k all the time. The 50 watt wasn't purchased for home use anyway. My go to is my JTM1 or JMP1 into a 55hz Heritage Celestion. 100db speaker but a just as good alternative is a G12M20. Very reasonable volume.

 

[Geeze]

Anything low volume whilst trying for good tone is a compromise.

Before you do anything record a loop and raise your volume to what you think may annoy the neighbors. Go outside and experience it. There is a wide space between being able to hear a guitar being played vs. rattling the neighbors windows. A dB meter is a valuable tool to understand actual levels.

Also look at what you can do inside the room. Sound transmission is the soundwave bouncing on your walls & windows creating passive drivers to the other side. If you can kill the bounce, you reduce the exterior transmission. I lived in a townhouse and shared walls with four neighbors. I pointed the speaker cab at the back of a cloth covered couch. Even a couple feet away made a significant difference as the bounce was attenuated. So much that I abandoned my quest for small tube / modeling amps and went back to 40-100 watt tube amps.

Currently I have one MV and the rest are NMV amps as the tone and feel at any volume is what I want. I run with and without drive pedals depending on mood and recently purchased an Ironman II - it allows more of the tube amp girth to join the party. I tried reamping recently and was underwhelmed.

Russ

 

[RCM 800]

if the loft is your dedicated space you could also hang some stuff to dampen/absorb some of the sound level. Sounds like you want more speaker interaction to me and that only comes with volume.

 

[jeffb]

Thanks for everyone's input- all good advice and most of it I have considered. Yes, volume and speaker interaction is where I live, and unfortunately...can't do where I live now. At my old house in CT we were well separated from neighbors up on a mountain and I could get some volume. Now I'm in a quiet/sleepy suburban neighborhood with about 10-12 feet separating each house side to side. I've not pissed off anyone yet, but.

I can do some semi perm soundproofing, but we are renting this home so I cannot use the panels or other perm/difficult to remove process - will take the paint right off the walls. I am reinforcing key areas with blankets, boxes, etc.

A new amp, especially at the current bloated pricing, is not an option: we just spent a good chunk of our profit from the sale of our last home to get down here. I could perhaps swing a used DSL1, or something else in the $3-400 range (quilter UK superblock?) but that's about it.

I'm going to enlist my daughter to help me out the next time I am playing to see how it sounds from the outside- Gave my looper to my brother a while back.

 

[RCM 800]

Thanks for everyone's input- all good advice and most of it I have considered. Yes, volume and speaker interaction is where I live, and unfortunately...can't do where I live now. At my old house in CT we were well separated from neighbors up on a mountain and I could get some volume. Now I'm in a quiet/sleepy suburban neighborhood with about 10-12 feet separating each house side to side. I've not pissed off anyone yet, but.

I can do some semi perm soundproofing, but we are renting this home so I cannot use the panels or other perm/difficult to remove process - will take the paint right off the walls. I am reinforcing key areas with blankets, boxes, etc.

A new amp, especially at the current bloated pricing, is not an option: we just spent a good chunk of our profit from the sale of our last home to get down here. I could perhaps swing a used DSL1, or something else in the $3-400 range (quilter UK superblock?) but that's about it.

I'm going to enlist my daughter to help me out the next time I am playing to see how it sounds from the outside- Gave my looper to my brother a while back.

As teenagers we did some amazing soundproofing with old carpet, padding and blankets. Wasnt pretty though lol.

 

[Maggot Brain]

Moving blankets, cardboard, rugs or comforters work well and aren't necessarily permanent. There are products that allow to hang objects without nailing or drilling the wall nor damage paint (they say).

I'm kinda in the same spot atm because when I first got my SV20 my neighbor was always gone (we share a wall in a triplex) but now is home 24/7... A hermit that now never leaves AND recently had a relative move in... So now I'm not getting to enjoy my SV20 like I used too and... I'm getting kinda bummed .

Ironically my 4x12 seems to work best as it's EXTREMELY directional. Sitting infront of it it sounds loud as sht but step off to the side a foot or 2 and it is rather tame. Being behind the 4x12 proves even more how directional it is, a lazer beam of sound. I am getting away with it parked infront of a closet FULL of clothes which seem to do a great job... Just the bass/low frequency is an issue I imagine... I'm rambling but honestly at this point I use my SS for overdriven tones a lot, I often play clean thru the SV20 or with a OD pedal... but just not the same... The few times I'm lucky and the neighbor is gone briefly I quickly jump on the SV20 and get my kicks while I can...

Maybe keep tabs on your neighbor's schedule and use the Origin20 when they are gone or maybe just go introduce yourself and ask them if your playing bothers them. My neighbor across the street was a gigging guitarist in the 70s and 80s and digs when I play, maybe you'll get lucky and your neighbor digs it or atleast doesn't mind.

I definitely believe in all the set ups I've experimented with in a triplex the 4x12 works the best at controlling the direction of sound. I had a Origin20C and with the 1x10 open back the volume spread was massive. It may sound counter productive but I'd suggest looking into a basic 4x12, get one of those isolator pads to set it on, direct it away from the neighbor's and hang blankets or cool Persian rugs around the reflection areas.

 

[Leonard Neemoil]

Do you have the ability to build a "floating" room in that loft?

Doesn't need to be very big and could be powered by a simple lead cord. Could be easily removed with zero evidence of it's existence. Put carpet on both the inner and outer walls. Studio booth at home.

 

[Kinkless Tetrode]

Re-amper through IR's to a low volume studio monitor? Do IR's get the pushed speaker thing? Just thinking out loud.

 

[scozz]

………..At my old house in CT we were well separated from neighbors up on a mountain………..

I’ve lived in CT for most of my life, moving to Florida in 2006. From 1986 to 2006, I also lived on a mountain with no neighbors in sight in western CT! Lol,…

 

[Mitchell Pearrow]

Congrats on the move, Jeff sorry you’re still not able to move air as you like, but others have popped in an gave up some great advice. Glad you are able to get your amps back into play.

Cheers
Mitch

 

[Leonard Neemoil]

I was born in Bristol, CT, then pops moved us to upstate NY when I was around 4 or 5 and I hated it at the time. Love it now though! Thanks pop!

 

[Matthews Guitars]

In actual fact it doesn't really cost a lot of money to build an isolation booth in a room and thus be able to shove your amp and cabinets in it and crank it up without annoying the neighbors. If you're handy with tools and can build framing, install drywall, and stuff insulation, you can add a healthy layer of isolation to a smallish room in a weekend's worth of work.

 

[tonycaster]

Why can't neighbors learn to live with cranked Marshalls?

when our neighbor blows the leaves at 7 am...

 

[jeffb]

I'm no carpenter/woodworker/mason, unfortunately. I can build you a damn good set of arrows, and get your archery gear in tip top shape, however.

Again, thank you all for suggestions- slowly working my way towards an acceptable solution.


Earlier today I put the 55HZ in the cab and unhooked the G12M25 RI. One speaker running @ 8 ohms = 2 steps forward. Much better than the GB RI or my EVH 20s. Tried the EL34IIs, and that was one step back. E34Ls will go back in.

 

[eastwood6]

Still live in CT in a small home in an old neighborhood with narrow streets and houses REALLY close by. Can dime my amps in the winter when the windows are closed and folks are out working but otherwise would seriously rattle the neighbors.

A low wattage tube amp with a Marshall voiced OD and a little reverb or delay goes a long way to replicating cranked amp tone at reasonable volume for practice. I do this with my 1974x now and did this with my Class5 head when I had it.

Yes, it’s not a substitute for pants-flapping volume but I’d rather focus on playing with a compromise than “what could be.” Good luck with the move!

 

[jeffb]

Wow, so many folks from CT!

I'm originally from the South, but was in CT/NY (fairfield/westchester) area since March of 97.

I will miss some things, but I never could adapt to the pace of life, and since the pandemic, people have gone totally bonkers. It's so good to be back amongst my kinfolk again My Daughter and Wife love it here, but I think they are feeling a bit out of place- they both have a smidgen of a Bronx accent (and a bigger proportion of the attitude).

Looking to get in some more playing time this w/e.