A couple of theory question's regarding 'keys'

[bulldozer1984]

Ok guys,

Well my theory knowledge is very limited. When i create solo's for my songs, i sit at home with the recording of the rhythm and just find notes that fit and sound right. And after a while of doing this i know 'patterns' that work.

I use my ear to tell me what works and what doesnt.

Ill explain what i do know.

I know about octaves. (12 frets up and you hit the same note again etc. or open 'E' string is the same note as 2nd fret 'D' string just 1 octave apart)
I know notes and how to find them on the guitar.
I know chords and i know their root notes. (The basic ones anyway)
I know all the power chords. (who doesn't)
I can read tabs.
There is probably some more stuff i know but cant think atm.

Before i ask my question ill tell you how my question came about.

Im looking through my 'Scale Finder' book (it has all the modes/scales in it) and ive realised that my latest solo is a combination of major and minor scales.. And it fits the music perfectly (to the ear) but to me doesnt seem to make sense (to me)

Here's my questions

1). Our song is primarily played with a palm muted 'E' power chord and also has 'G' 'A' 'B' 'C' power chords (no 'major' or 'minor' chords)

So what key would this be in ?? I think it's in 'A'

2). Is it true that because the song isnt Major or Minor (as i understand it) means that I can use major and minor scales mixed in together for soloing ??

If someone could answer me that it would greatly help.Thanks guys.

 

[willscott182]

Im not too great with theory either, but it sounds to me that your song is in E, that would be my guess anyway...

 

[Strateuphoria]

1 Usually the chord over which the melody works in.

2 Relative Minor or Major. example, G minor over A major.



We're only scratching the surface here. My advice is to teach your ear to distinguish the difference between minor and major. Power chords (flat fives) are neither major or minor. Practise playing the full chords, from the E and A strings, for a start.

 

[Australian]

Yes your song has Em as its tonal centre.

The answer to your 2nd question, and this will explain why your song is in the Key of Eminor and not E Major.
Chords belonging to the Key of E Major are- E Major , F#minor, G#minor, A Major, B Major, C#minor, D#diminished .

Notice that in your song the G and C chords aren't sharp when comparing it to the chord sequence above?
Well that will steer the song in the direction of minor.

So when choosing between E Major Scale or E minor scale for your song, the E minor scale will be the winner.


I don't know what scales you're familiar with, but the Eminor Pentatonic Scale will be a good one for to get warmed up with in this Key. This is very basic theory. I could get into modes, and relative minors, etc but thats for another time.

 

[StootMonster]

Here's a little tip that has stuck with me over the years:

You can play a minor third over a major chord, but you can't play a major third over a minor chord.

Meaning: You can have a song in Emaj and jam in the major scale and also switch to the blues scale or the pentatonic scale and jam. The blues scale and the minor pentatonic scale both use the minor third. But if you have a song in Eminor, you wouldn't be able to use that major third (3rd string 1st fret, 3rd string 13th fret, 2nd string 9th fret etc...) The minor third is the note below those notes. It's what makes the major chord a major chord and the minor chord, a minor chord.

Hope that made some sense.

 

[bulldozer1984]

I would firstly like to say thank you everyone for your replies. Greatly appreciated.

I worked out using my book that for that particular song I've been using the E natural minor scale. And I didn't even know it lol. All the notes fit into that one scale.

And now Australian you made me understand why that scale fit the song. Cos its in minor.

 

[Wycked Lester]

Yes your song has Em as its tonal centre.

The answer to your 2nd question, and this will explain why your song is in the Key of Eminor and not E Major.
Chords belonging to the Key of E Major are- E Major , F#minor, G#minor, A Major, B Major, C#minor, D#diminished .

Notice that in your song the G and C chords aren't sharp when comparing it to the chord sequence above?
Well that will steer the song in the direction of minor.

So when choosing between E Major Scale or E minor scale for your song, the E minor scale will be the winner.


I don't know what scales you're familiar with, but the Eminor Pentatonic Scale will be a good one for to get warmed up with in this Key. This is very basic theory. I could get into modes, and relative minors, etc but thats for another time.

This!

Furthurmore,....the notes of the Em scale are E F# G A B C D

so all of your chords fall into the Em scale
The G is the MINOR 3rd, A is the fourth, B is the fifth, C is the MINOR 6, and D is the MINOR 7

One reason you may not be able to instantly tell if its major or minor is because you are using Power Chords, or '5 chords' .....which is fine....but if you want to figure out if you should be in major or minor do this...

When you play the E power chord, ...go ahead and play the full E major chord, then try the full Em chord....you should then easily be able to tell which one fits you progression the best just by ear....

make sense?

 

[John 14:6]

I would firstly like to say thank you everyone for your replies. Greatly appreciated.

I worked out using my book that for that particular song I've been using the E natural minor scale. And I didn't even know it lol. All the notes fit into that one scale.

And now Australian you made me understand why that scale fit the song. Cos its in minor.

You can also play notes out of the different scales that correspond to each chord change. For example the A minor scale for the A minor chord will have only one different note from E minor. The F note is sharp in E minor and natural in A minor. You may or may not want to avoid playing F or F sharp notes during the A minor chords and just focus more on notes that really outline the A minor chord, but there are no real rules in music other than "use your ears." You can use this sort of approach for every chord in the song or progression. This is more of a modal approach.

 

[carnada]

you can also use both A minor or A major chords in E minor due to the melodic minor stuff.

D# would work while you are playing that B major chord.

If you play a melodic E minor scale while you play that A major chord or you would win.

 

[ant_riv]

OP, it is great that you figured out how to make it work for you.

What has been said here so far is pretty accurate.

In music, theory typically explains why notes sound good together or can explain why sometimes they don't sound good together. Ultimately, our ear must guide us though.

To follow through on what a few others have said, but with a little more detail:

The notes E, G, A, B, and C all belong to an E minor scale OR a G major scale. Em and G are relative to each other because they both have the same notes in them. They just have different starting points.

Em: E, F#, G, A, B, C, D, E
G: G, A, B, C, D, E, F#, G

To make life more difficult, but necessary to understand why playing in the right key involves using more than the root notes:

G chord= G, B, D, Gm= G, Bb, D,
A chord= A, C#, E, Am= A, C, E,
B chord= B, D#, F#, Bm= B, D, F#,
C chord= C, E, G, Cm= C, Eb, G,
D chord= D, F#, A, Dm= D, F, A,
E chord= E, G#, B, Em= E, G, B,
F# chord= F#, A#, C#

This just shows that there are more to keys than the "root" notes.
It also explains why "power" chords sound "better". You leave out the middle note (which is the 3rd, which makes chords major or minor) and get just root and 5th, which tends to sound better through distortion.

From above, to play in the key of G, all of the notes in the chords should be in the key of G, which is why some of the correct chords are major and some are minor. [G, Am, Bm, C, D, Em, F#dim,]

I say "correct" because if your ear likes the way it sounds, it is ok. There are plenty of examples of great sounding songs/chords that don't fit "the rules".

BUT, if a note doesn't sound good over a chord, it is typically because ONE of the notes in the chord CONFLICTS with the note being played. This will usually be one of the "hidden" notes (Not the root note but one of the other notes in the chord).

Some of the other posters made this point, but I wanted to try to help by explaining why.

I apologize if this makes it more confusing. Maybe someone here can build on this. OR, it may make sense to take a few lessons with a good teacher who will explain this and show examples and answer specific questions. Theory keeps getting deeper, when you add in modes, 7ths, 9ths, etc.

REMEMBER though, let your ear be the guide.

If you practice scale theory enough, just like when you talk, you no longer think about the letters or the words. You just speak and let it flow.

I hope this helps!!!

 

[bulldozer1984]

So many good responses from you guys. Thanks alot to everyone that has spent time giving some very detailed replies.

It really is very appreciated, thanks

 

[SmokeyDopey]

 

[Blisster]

sounds like the key is Em and I'm betting you're confused because your solo is using components of the Gmaj scale-- It's all about the 'relative' minor.

record a quick little backing track of you playing a G chord, or even a sequence that is rooted in G and then jam the Gmaj scale over it.
now record a similar backing track, but use Em as your root chord and then jam the Gmaj scale over it.

the layers begin to peel back.....

 

[John 14:6]

sounds like the key is Em and I'm betting you're confused because your solo is using components of the Gmaj scale-- It's all about the 'relative' minor.

record a quick little backing track of you playing a G chord, or even a sequence that is rooted in G and then jam the Gmaj scale over it.
now record a similar backing track, but use Em as your root chord and then jam the Gmaj scale over it.

the layers begin to peel back.....

What Blisster is saying here is kind of a key to playing modes or modal playing. The G Major scale is G, A, B, C, D, E, F#. The E minor scale is E, F#, G, A, B, C, D. They are the exact same notes. Play a G Major chord and then paly the G Major scale. This Major scale will have kind of a happy sound for lack of a better description. Now play an E minor chord and then play the same group of notes, but this time stating on the E. The same notes now have a sad minor sound due to the different intervals and the different notes you are now emphasising in that particular group of notes. Frank Gambale has some excellent instructional videos for explaining modes and scales.

 

[chadjwil]

Ok guys,

So what key would this be in ?? I think it's in 'A'

Right back to what everyone has been saying, there is always more to it when your dealing with just a few power chords. If you think that an A scale sounds like it fits, you're right. All your chords are also in the Cmaj scale, and just as E is the relative minor of G, A is the relative minor of C.

Of course the "tonal center" concept would sort of lead you to E, but if you were to go with the C or A pentatonic minor scales you would get a much more bubblegummy type vibe. It probably would not fit very well with your arrangement, but it would be do-able.

Have fun noodling with all this new knowlege bro! Keep it creative.