A tall bottom...and a not so tall bottom

[shakti]

I’ve had a hangup on these infamous tall bottom (well, tall stacks, to be precise) ever since my teenage years, listening intently to Hendrix and Cream and poring over images of their sexy pinstripe cabs. I got into that stuff in the early 90s, and had I known back then about how the vintage market would develop I would have searched hard for vintage gear right from the start. But I didn’t have much money, much less the resources to actually find any of those beasts here in Norway. Sweden is a different story - that was allegedly the country with the highest count of plexi Marshall gear otutside of the UK in the 60s. I don’t know how true that rumour is, but one thing is for sure; Norway was *not* the hotbed of Marshall gear in the 60s. I’m not even sure if any Marshall gear was imported and sold here from dealers before 1968.

In any case, a tall bottom cabinet was one of my most desired objects for years, and I realized I would have to try to find a fixer-upper. I had a few nearly-there experiences before a friend of mine miraculously came upon this one a few years back:
https://www.marshallforum.com/threads/help-to-identify-cab.101598/

As you can see in that thread, the cab had obviously been worked on and was in dire need of restoration.

Then about a year ago, this one popped up, and it was finally my turn:
https://www.marshallforum.com/threads/original-1966-1968-tall-bottom-cabinet.110524/

Another project cab, but structurally still in great condition with no repairs necessary. Shortly after I got this cab, my friend actually offered me the first cab in a trade as he didn’t have the time and dedication to fix it. After years of searching, buying and trading, I finally had original speakers for all of these plus another early ‘66 slant cabinet. So now the fun begins; restoring two tall bottom and one slant pinstripe cabinet! I will try to document the process here and show you some funny details. More to follow...

 

[shakti]

After stripping, filling and sanding until my hands were sore and shaking from the vibration of the sander, have a look here at how the two bottom cabinets compare:



??? The cab on the left is probably a ‘67 and has finger joints. The one on the right is a ‘66 butt jointed cab, the one that turned up in Norway (and has most likely been here since the start, more on that later). It is shorter by about 4 cm! Some detective work is needed...let’s look at the sides:



More strange stuff...the ‘67 cab has its original t-nuts and the short leather handles from Mg fit perfectly. On the ‘66 cab there are filled holes from what would have been the original leather handles, but they are spaced much wider apart! I haven’t measured but I suspect they fit the long leather handles. Has anyone seen this before?

And why is it 4 cm shorter? Well, take a look at the bottom edge, right by the butt joint. You can see the corresponding filled holes from original leather handles...obviously this cab was at one point cut down in size! As to why, we can only guess. Perhaps it was damaged from years on the road? As you can see in the original thread linked above, the cab had been modified to have a slanting baffle like the later, square size straight cabs. You can tell the strips of wood to make the baffle slant were a later addition since the wood was different and even the nails used to attach them were slightly different than those used on the rest of the bracing. The baffle itself also shows some signs of having been reduced in size.

My guess is that the cab had been subjected to so much wear and tear on the road that when it was refurbished in the early 70s, it was physically in such poor shape and probably almost fell apart when the original tolex was stripped, that the owner decided to re-do the bottom butt joints, and did so by making a new clean cut 4cm shorter. This is pure guesswork, but this cab has been heavily «loved» and obviously has storied to tell. I will go on to speculate about some of those stories later.

 

[shakti]

Lastly for today, here’s the other side of the ‘66 cab alongside the ‘67. In the original thread, Bygonetones wondered if one of the sides of the cab had been changed since it looked very different than the other 3 sides, with wood patterns showing. Well, I believe your suspicion was correct, Brian...
On the ‘67 cab, you can see marks from where the original metal glides were attached. On the ‘66 no marks can be found...no holes, nothing. I do not think this side of the cab was original. Probably it was also damaged so much it had to be replaced.

So, all in all this ‘66 not-so-tall bottom cab is in the more than well loved category, and its collectability value is close to zero. Nevertheless, it deserves to come back to life, and that’s just what I am doing. In fact, I am done filling, sanding and cleaning it, and it has already been tolexed. I used it as a «practice» cab as I had not done any tolexing in 11 years. It came out nice, but I made a couple of bad decisions and certainly learned some tricks that will help me get the next two even better. Photos will follow.

 

[BygoneTones]

Nice projects. The 67 in particular. Look forward to seeing the finished photos.

With the butt jointed cab, I wonder if the strap handles were originally on the side that got replaced with that different type of wood? And the side with the handle holes on it now is the side where the metal feet would have been originally? With the wider style handles added later when the cab was modified. That would be my guess.

 

[shakti]

Anything is possible, but the holes for the (wider) leather handles are at the same height as on the 67 cab, and that side doesn’t look replaced. The cab is obviously oriented the correct way now with the holes for glider cups (jack socket cups) on the topside.

Also, when the cab was redone in (presumably) 1973, it got plastic side handles complete with cutouts, so I thnk everything points to those filled holes being from the original leather handles.

 

[shakti]

OK, it’s time for some speculation.

Remember I told you how rare pinstripe Marshall gear was in Norway. In fact, the only band I know of who used Marshall gear in Norway before the lte 60s was a band called The Vanguards which featured a young Terje Rypdal. After what I’ve read they bought some Marshall stacks in England in (probably) 1966 which was brought over to Norway.

Forward to 1967, and the infamous Stax tour of Europe landed in Oslo. The show featured Booker T & the MGs, Sam and Dave and a late apperance of Otis Redding. It was promoted by a young enthusiast, and the backline was supplied by none other than The Vanguards. The show was filmed by Norwegian State Broadcasting (NRK) and later released on DVD. It’s a terrific document of this soul revue.

Onstage you can see two Marshall pinstripe slant cabs and two tall bottom cabs (one behind the bass player and one over on the other side of the drummer), all belonging to The Vanguards. Amps (where are they now?) most likely JTM45/100s, one standard and one trem. So we know of these few amps and cabs in existence in Norway in 1966/67, but it’s not clear if there actually were any more than these.

If you read the original thread about the «not-so-tall bottom cab», you can see photos of a cab my friend found about 10 years ago. It was an early ‘66 pinstripe slant cab. It had been retolexed, cut out for plastic side handles and had a checkerboard grille, but the speaker were the original March ‘66 T1221s. The logo had a placement slightly above the horizontal angle line on the front, as is typical of early ‘66 cabs.
When my friend later found the «not-so-tall» bottom cab, it was clear that these two had probably been a pair at some point. They had both been retolexed with the same type of tolex, same checkerboard grille, same plastic side handles. They both also had a greyish foam lining inside, which may or may not have been original. The bottom cab had non-original T1221s from 1973, maybe put in there when the cabs had been modded, as the look was consistent with 1973.

So there it was, a (modified) early ‘66 pinstripe stack, in Norway. Could it be...

...one of the original «Vanguards» pinstripe stacks?

Let’s look closely at the not-so-tall bottom, particularly the side with the holes for the (oddly) long leather side handles. Below those holes are another hole in the midline. Now, take a look at this video from the ‘67 Stax show in Oslo and fast forward to 3:50 where you get a very clear look at the side of the tall bottom cab:



Lo and behold! Long leather side handles, *and* another handle placed vertically on the middle! So the extra hole on the not-so-tall bottom cab is likely from another handle placed vertically (the other hole would have been where there was a cutout for the added plastic side handle).
Could the not-so-tall bottom cab be the very same cab once owned by Terje Rypdal and The Vanguards, and seen onstage with Booker T & The MGs? Speculation, I know, but really not that far-fetched I think.

I have never seen those long side handles or the extra middle handle before. It would also point to this being a very, very early tall bottom cab.

 

[shakti]

In fact, I think those may not be leather handles at all, but rather standard strap handles. These are mounted with two screws, which explains why there are two holes, one large and one smaller, for each end of the handle. This is how standard strap handles (like on amp heads) are attached.

 

[BygoneTones]

I would say that is more likely a PA cab to the drummer's right. The top handle looks more like a leather one to me in that footage. The 4x12 towers had handles just like that. Leather at top and bottom, then the standard longer one in the middle:

http://www.amparchives.com/folder/1395/
https://themusiclocker.co.uk/shop/v...tripe-4x12-celestion-t1221-pa-column-cabinet/

The guitar, bass and keyboard player are all to the drummer's left.

I think that cab of yours was likely modified more than once as you suggest though. Non original standard style strap handles first and then the recessed plastic ones later.

The grey foam lining you mentioned was used in early 66 cabs though, so that was likely original.

If only cabs could talk.

 

[shakti]

It is not a PA cab, check at 5:30 in this video:



The funny thing is that the tall cabs look extra tall in this video, at least to my eyes. Look at the tall cab next to the slant cab behind the bass player. For some reason, it looks extra imposing.

Then take a look again at the photos of my not-so-tall cab. There are marks from the mounting holes for the lower side handle, right at the edge of the lower butt joint. Remember that this end of the cab was obviously cut down at some point. But by measuring the distance from the edge to the mounting holes for the *upper* side handle, we can project how tall the cab was originally (assuming the side handles were mounted symmetrically). The upper side handle is actually about 6 cm from the edge of the upper butt joint, so the overall height of the cab could have been 94.5 cm before it was cut down (not counting the glider feet). Looking inside, I can’t rule out that the upper butt joint was re-done and possibly re-cut, so it is not entirely unthinkable that it was even taller than that originally.

The plot thickens here. The evidence I have is entirely circumstantial, but I think it is quite compelling. There are some unique signs here that really line up with the cab(s) seen in the videos from April ‘67. In my view, it is very possible that this cab is one of the two tall cabs in that video, and they must be some of the very earliest tall cabs, and are in fact EXTRA tall bottom cabs! Originally they had two long leather side handles and a middle strap handle. Along the way the leather handles on mine were probably worn and replaced with the much more durable strap handles (hence the extra holes side by side). Later on the cab was heavily modified and cut down in size, cutouts made for side handles, extra bracing added to make the baffle slope, but the bracing put in upside-down (see original thread), and re-tolexed and re-grilled with replacement speakers.

I know where the matching slant cab is (my friend sold it some years ago) and it would be very cool to have them matched up again some day.

 

[shakti]

Found a couple more photos of The Vanguards with their Marshall gear, this is May 1 1968 (Rypdal had left by this time I think):

http://www.ordentligradio.no/wp-content/uploads/2016/08/02RWaC3CbM.jpg

Here’s another one which in fact shows a PA cab, but the one in the Sam and Dave video is not a PA cab (can’t embed it, you will have to click the link)

https://images.app.goo.gl/Nt7DwuvGuvv1gb147

 

[shakti]

Here’s the band again at a reunion in 1982:



Look at 2:05...isn’t that a tall bottom cab but now with a white, large logo? Photo is too grainy to see, but it could well be a checkerboard grille. Is this one of their original bottom pinstripe cabs, but now cut down in size and retolexed and re-grilled? In other words...

 

[BygoneTones]

Here’s the band again at a reunion in 1982:



Look at 2:05...isn’t that a tall bottom cab but now with a white, large logo? Photo is too grainy to see, but it could well be a checkerboard grille. Is this one of their original bottom pinstripe cabs, but now cut down in size and retolexed and re-grilled? In other words...

I don't know, it looks like a standard sized B cab to me. Maybe a 1970 or 1971 basketweave? You can see it at 0.08 too, but still pretty grainy.

Difficult to say with such low resolution video. We need the camera guy to zoom right in on it.

 

[BygoneTones]

It is not a PA cab, check at 5:30 in this video:



The funny thing is that the tall cabs look extra tall in this video, at least to my eyes. Look at the tall cab next to the slant cab behind the bass player. For some reason, it looks extra imposing.

Then take a look again at the photos of my not-so-tall cab. There are marks from the mounting holes for the lower side handle, right at the edge of the lower butt joint. Remember that this end of the cab was obviously cut down at some point. But by measuring the distance from the edge to the mounting holes for the *upper* side handle, we can project how tall the cab was originally (assuming the side handles were mounted symmetrically). The upper side handle is actually about 6 cm from the edge of the upper butt joint, so the overall height of the cab could have been 94.5 cm before it was cut down (not counting the glider feet). Looking inside, I can’t rule out that the upper butt joint was re-done and possibly re-cut, so it is not entirely unthinkable that it was even taller than that originally.

The plot thickens here. The evidence I have is entirely circumstantial, but I think it is quite compelling. There are some unique signs here that really line up with the cab(s) seen in the videos from April ‘67. In my view, it is very possible that this cab is one of the two tall cabs in that video, and they must be some of the very earliest tall cabs, and are in fact EXTRA tall bottom cabs! Originally they had two long leather side handles and a middle strap handle. Along the way the leather handles on mine were probably worn and replaced with the much more durable strap handles (hence the extra holes side by side). Later on the cab was heavily modified and cut down in size, cutouts made for side handles, extra bracing added to make the baffle slope, but the bracing put in upside-down (see original thread), and re-tolexed and re-grilled with replacement speakers.

I know where the matching slant cab is (my friend sold it some years ago) and it would be very cool to have them matched up again some day.

You're right. Interesting. Difficult to say what the story is there. Could be a mod or a custom order, or just stock.

In early 67 I've seen some slant cabs with extra handles fitted to the side that look stock. So I guess it's possible some of the tall B cabs came with extra handles too.

 

[shakti]

I don't know, it looks like a standard sized B cab to me. Maybe a 1970 or 1971 basketweave? You can see it at 0.08 too, but still pretty grainy.

Difficult to say with such low resolution video. We need the camera guy to zoom right in on it.

Yeas, I agree after looking closer. But I found out this footage was from a festival of sorts with loads of bands on the bill, so there is not much significance to it anyway. Could have been anyone’s gear.

But I think it’s safe to conclude that my cab would have originally had long leather (or amp-type strap) handles, plus a middle strap handle. I haven’t decided yet what to do, I think I will at least add long handles on the top and bottom, but an extra middle handle might look weird when the cab has been cut down in size. I wouldn’t be able to use the original holes for the middle handle anyway since it wouldn’t be centered.

 

[neikeel]

Great story either way.

Looking forward to you resto thread (warts and all - the things you learned and would change in the future) too.

 

[shakti]

Pics will come. I have finished the slant cab except rear panel, and it came out pretty much perfect. The not-so-tall bottom is also done with new tolex, just need to get the piping in place and fix some details on the baffle.

I might try to take pics and make a tutorial when I do the last bottom cab. Jim «Scumback» made a nice tutorial which was on The Gear Page many years ago, but I can’t find it now. I will say two things; specific tolex glue is great, and a hairdryer is your friend. Once you understand that and get the hang of it, the corners are actually easy and fun if you get the first cut right.

 

[tomsvintage]

Here is my 67 Marshall tall bass cab. I was trying to hold the measuring tape and take a pic. A little difficult

Bottom of the cab ~

All measurements are from center to center.

Round metal skids are 26 and 1/4 " apart lengthwise and 11 and 12/16" apart on the width.

Long side of the cab ~

Round metal skids are 32 and 1/2 " apart lengthwise and 11 and 1/4 " apart on the width

Plastic top cups are attached with small finishing nails and round metal skids are attached with a nail in the middle.

 

[tomsvintage]

Looking forward to seeing the cabs as the restoration is progressing !

 

[Highnumbers]

Very nice! I look forward to seeing your restoration progress. Those tall 4x12 pinstripe cabs are so iconic and nothing is more impressive than a full stack.

(BTW, extremely nice rig Tom!)

 

[shakti]

Here’s the 1966 full stack. Bottom cab is the not-so-tall one with April (or was it June?) T1221s, with doping. Top cab has March T1221s, the early type with no doping. The un-doped ones are a touch more aggressive sounding, very crunchy and snarly. Almost like a cross of the classic pre-67 alnico and a later G12M.
The amp is a meticulous clone of a JTM45/100. Merren output transformer and almost all NOS parts, but still missing a large Radiospares 25k pot.