Anybody else replace the Probucker 2 in their Epi Les Paul?

[JimiRules]

I've had my Epi Les Paul for about 6 months and the Probucker 2 pickup is a little too muddy for my tastes. I really like the 498t that's in my Gibson SG, so I just ordered one to throw into the Les Paul. Anybody else have to replace their Probucker 2?

 

[BobV]

Epi pickups can be inconsistent, you might have a pair that sound great and the same hardware in a different guitar can sound dodgy. You might want to play with the height before swapping the pickup, but if you do then while you're in there you might want to replace the output jack. Nothing wrong with the alpha pots that are in there, but the wires -- especially from the controls to the toggle switch and back -- can be awfully cheap and flimsy so be real careful or else replace them.

 

[MonstersOfTheMidway]

Interesting. I don't own an epiphone with the probucker pups, but I play a few of them and they sounded OK to me.

At various times, I tried an epi with probuckers using the store's amps like a JVM410H, some wonderful 2x12 solid state Fender with built-in delay and modulation effects, a Mesa Boogie DR and TR, some Egnator amp, and a few others. They sounded good from clean to mean tones.

@OP: I was curious how you used your epi with probuckers? What amp? what settings? what speakers? music genre? etc.

I am thinking about picking up an Epi with the probuckers, but I'm interested in reading how others are using this guitar.

 

[JimiRules]

@BobV I found a "used" 498t that was removed from a new SG, so I figured I would give it a try. I figured at the very least I could flip it if it doesn't work out. I like the sound of my SG, so I was hoping that this type of pickup would give me what I want out of my Les Paul.

@MonstersoftheMidway
I play a lot of classic rock. Skynyrd, Cream, Black Crowes. My band does some Pearl Jam, Shinedown, AC/DC, Godsmack, Bad Company. I don't play with a ton of gain, and I use a YJM 95% of the time and a TSL60 when I want to give the YJM a break.

I don't have tons of experience with Les Pauls. Maybe they are darker guitars by nature. I had an Epi SG and it seemed pretty dark and muddy compared to my Gibson SG, so I figured that maybe it was just the Epi pickups. I've read various reviews about the probuckers. Some say they are muddy, others say they are great. I just know from comparing my Epi Les Paul to the Gibson SG, the SG seemed to be clearer and more crisp sounding.

 

[MonstersOfTheMidway]

Thanks for the info.

I do believe that pickups play a huge part in getting the tone you want.

Let us know how things turn out, and maybe upload a sample of the sounds.

 

[BobV]

I replaced the Epi humbuckers on a Dot (they were labeled "dot/les paul") with a set of Gibson 498R/T's. The 498's are an overwound pickup, but by no means a high output high distortion pickup. They're more midrange and maybe darker, as any pickup will be when you start to overwind it, but not yet sacrificing sparkle or high end the way you would when you go to extremes.

Oh, BTW the holes in the corners of Gibson mounting rings might not line up with the holes on the Epi body, so if you swap you might wind up reusing the Epi mounting rings. Also keep track of the screw length, you might or might not have two different lengths of those little number 4 screws.

 

[JimiRules]

Thanks for the tip!

 

[JimiRules]

Here's an update... I got the 498t pickup and took it to my dad's place. He's been swapping out pickups and what not longer than I've been alive. We opened the guitar up and it had all the extra wires on the volume pot due to it being a coil splitting guitar. I did some research and it said to ignore 2 of the 5 wires and wire it up as you normally would if it didn't have all the extra stuff. We did that and was able to get sound from the pickup but it was weak. I think I'm just going to replace the volume pot and rewire it again.

 

[MonstersOfTheMidway]

Yup. I'd suggest you gut all the original pots and wiring for new pots and wiring.

 

[JimiRules]

Yup. I'd suggest you gut all the original pots and wiring for new pots and wiring.

I have a new volume pot on the way. I was wondering if the tone pot would have to be replaced, but its a normal looking pot without all the extra wiring that the volume pot had.

 

[BobV]

The 498's sold as parts for replacement/upgrade have four-conductor wiring; the ones that come stock in production guitars don't. If the pickup sounds weak there's a good chance that you have the coils wired in parallel instead of series (which is sometimes done deliberately in order to make a humbucker sound more like a single coil pickup). Check your wiring color codes and remember, they do not correspond from one manufacturer to another.

 

[JimiRules]

The 498's sold as parts for replacement/upgrade have four-conductor wiring; the ones that come stock in production guitars don't. If the pickup sounds weak there's a good chance that you have the coils wired in parallel instead of series (which is sometimes done deliberately in order to make a humbucker sound more like a single coil pickup). Check your wiring color codes and remember, they do not correspond from one manufacturer to another.

I bought this pickup from amazon.com and it said in the description that it was taken out of a stock SG, so it wasn't a replacement pickup as it was already in a stock guitar. So the wiring shouldn't have four conductor wiring should it?

 

[BobV]

I bought this pickup from amazon.com and it said in the description that it was taken out of a stock SG, so it wasn't a replacement pickup as it was already in a stock guitar. So the wiring shouldn't have four conductor wiring should it?

Something's not right here, how did you buy a used pickup from Amazon? It really doesn't matter if the "stock" SG had any kind of special feature for coil splitting or series/parallel. You need to make sure you have the four-conductor wiring connected correctly.

 

[JimiRules]

Something's not right here, how did you buy a used pickup from Amazon? It really doesn't matter if the "stock" SG had any kind of special feature for coil splitting or series/parallel. You need to make sure you have the four-conductor wiring connected correctly.

It was from a vendor on Amazon. Still waiting on the new pot to arrive. So it won't be as simple as installing the new pot and wiring it up like my SG is wired?

 

[temporarychicken]

I'm bumping this thread, since I just got a 2012 Model Epiphone Les Paul Custom Pro (Arctic White) yesterday.

It was in excellent condition apart from some of the gold plating delaminating from the bridge itself, and the bridge pickup cover.

I changed out the bridge for a genuine Gibson spare part (I had to hand cut the notches - deep joy) and re-strung it with Ernie ball hybrid slinky (9-46). After setting up the intonation and getting the action low, I am now faced with the muddiest tone ever on the neck pickup.

The bridge pickup is okay, the tone is balanced but is a bit lack-lustre and with weak sustain. The neck tone (even with the pickup lowered right down is muddier than a Pig Farm in May).

If this is what the Probuckers are doing for me, then forget it. I don't want to condemn them after just 1 day with the guitar, but I'm so far at a loss as to why the sound so poor.

The one thing I do like about these pickups is the coil tapping. When tapped, they do sound a little more super-strat-like but not as crystalline as a real single coil by any means, but when both pups are tapped together they mud up again - not a funky super-strat sound at all.

I have ordered a cheap set of 'Wilkinson Hot' pickups to replace these (32 UK pounds). I figured a hot pickup would be better for me as I want to produce sweet, tight high-gain processed lead sounds.

Am I doing the right thing, or should I stick with the Probuckers for a bit longer and try tweaking the pole pieces?

 

[Ed Hunter]

yeah the pro buckers are sub par, they are like really cheap 57's and that is even saying too much for them
THE ONLY thing i can say for them is they are much better than the original epi pu's those were HORRID!

 

[temporarychicken]

That's a shame - I guess I fell for Epiphone's hype, including their 'Probucker challenge' website and how they faithfully recreated the original 50s PAF with identical materials.

Maybe the 50s PAFs were crap too back then, but have aged beautifully like a fine wine in the meantime.

Even if that unlikely scenario is the case and that Epi's Probuckers will get better with playing time, I'm too impatient to wait 50 years for this guitar to sound good!

 

[Ed Hunter]

That's a shame - I guess I fell for Epiphone's hype, including their 'Probucker challenge' website and how they faithfully recreated the original 50s PAF with identical materials.

Maybe the 50s PAFs were crap too back then, but have aged beautifully like a fine wine in the meantime.

Even if that unlikely scenario is the case and that Epi's Probuckers will get better with playing time, I'm too impatient to wait 50 years for this guitar to sound good!

well the pro buckers use poly awg42 and not plain enamel awg42 so there is one fail.
and i am sure they are mass produced to the point of thousands a hour.
Old originals had things about them that were to the modern pu maker wrong, like one coil would have more winds than the other(coil offset)
but this was because the did not use a counter they just filled the bobbins until they looked full.
also all older PAF's used rough cast magnets not the shiny polished ones used today by some that are made in china.
The reason a old PAF has mojo and appeal is the materials used were better
and they did not over think the winding of them.
it is kind of funny cause epi used maple spacers but then turned around and used more modern poly wire to wind the coils???
why not go all out?

 

[temporarychicken]

Great info, thanks.

I'll put the Wilkinsons in this week and report back on what happens!

 

[vinceB]

I liked the Probuckers in my 2013 Custom Pro. I replaced them immediately with an EMG 81/85 combo but that was my plan all along. I actually used the probuckers in another guitar though.