Anyone knowing what are those choke models and what are their differences ?

[pat_rocks]

Here is stock 12'000 series 68 super lead 100w



I don't know anything about this model anyone know which model it is and what's the specs ?



There is something i don't understand those are suposedely to be both c1999 chokes. the last picture being a model from 1969-1973 how is this possible ? The second one is almost the double in size and proportions.

 

[TAZIN]

As far as I can remember both chokes have the same ratings. The end bell version started to show up around December 1969 if memory serves me correctly.

 

[Seanxk]

Size wise they should have the same core but looks like the plates are wider and taller ( which was done to accommodate through bolting ), the bells acting as supports too.

The 68 version is on its side where the 69 is vertical.

I presume this is regarding EVH's amplifier, now the question is, how does all that extra iron affect the sound if at all?

Edit, nice work on the website Pat

 

[PelliX]

I don't know anything about this model anyone know which model it is and what's the specs ?

Dunno about the model, but you can test the H(enry) value yourself with a tester or component identifier.

 

[neikeel]

The one on the 68 100w is a Dagnall C1999, the PT is Dagnall T2652 and the OT is C1998.

The C1999 is 3H, DCR of around 100R and a rating of 250mA

The later end bell chokes (Drake 1471) that I have had and measured have been 5H and similar DCR but yes they are chunkier, I have one of the 69-73 type (which I think has same core and lams as the C1999) upstairs inside a 71 SB but no time to pull it apart tonight.

 

[pat_rocks]

The one on the 68 100w is a Dagnall C1999, the PT is Dagnall T2652 and the OT is C1998.

The C1999 is 3H, DCR of around 100R and a rating of 250mA

The later end bell chokes (Drake 1471) that I have had and measured have been 5H and similar DCR but yes they are chunkier, I have one of the 69-73 type (which I think has same core and lams as the C1999) upstairs inside a 71 SB but no time to pull it apart tonight.

Wow if you could give us some specs and readings when you'll have the time it would be nice !

 

[ReWind James]

How are these chokes rated for their inductance, as they are commonly referred to in conversations?

I have several inductance and LCR meters but when I measure a vintage or modern "5H" or "3H" choke uninstalled at common frequencies, I don't get those ratings. Is there a standard of measuring these I'm unaware of or maybe I'm just missing something else?

 

[ReWind James]

Looking back, I found one that's the later type (this was noted to have come from a 1968 Super Lead, but perhaps it's later, 1969?) that does read fairly close to 4H at 1kHz.

You can ignore the OT / PT info at the bottom and the part number. The measurements at the top under "C1999 choke" are the readings for this larger choke with the bell covers in the photo at the bottom.

I don't think I have a better photo of that one, other than one below.

I don't really want to dig that choke out of storage right now, but I have at least three of these (the others are later, 1972 and 1976). If you need a specific dimensional measurement or something, let me know and I'll try to remember next time I have them in front of me (likely to be a bit).

 

[ReWind James]

btw - if someone has an original example of the previous non-bell Dagnall C1999 type, I'd be interested in purchasing it for a restoration. It's more appropriate than the others I have.

 

[mickeydg5]

Hammond Manufacturing has several types as copies/retrofits.
The specifications are modeled after the original units.

So did ClassicTone.

 

[ReWind James]

Hammond Manufacturing has several types as copies/retrofits.
The specifications are modeled after the original units.

So did ClassicTone.

If you were replying to me (maybe not?), I have Hammond, Heyboer, etc. “replicas” but I’m interested in a clean original for both study and vintage amp restoration.

 

[mickeydg5]

If you were replying to me (maybe not?), I have Hammond, Heyboer, etc. “replicas” but I’m interested in a clean original for both study and vintage amp restoration.

Gotcha. I am all for vintage units for study and use.

My point is the specifications of the copies tells the differences between the options.

 

[TAZIN]

Brian over at Marstran transformers measured one of the Dagnall end bell style chokes ('70 - '73) years ago and came up with 3.63 Henries with a DCR of 103.7 ohms.

 

[TAZIN]

How are these chokes rated for their inductance, as they are commonly referred to in conversations?

I have several inductance and LCR meters but when I measure a vintage or modern "5H" or "3H" choke uninstalled at common frequencies, I don't get those ratings. Is there a standard of measuring these I'm unaware of or maybe I'm just missing something else?

That's a good question. Perhaps @Pete Farrington has an insight regarding this.

 

[mickeydg5]

How are these chokes rated for their inductance, as they are commonly referred to in conversations?

I have several inductance and LCR meters but when I measure a vintage or modern "5H" or "3H" choke uninstalled at common frequencies, I don't get those ratings. Is there a standard of measuring these I'm unaware of or maybe I'm just missing something else?

The deal is most transformers are fairly on point but most manufacturers give commonly 10-20 % +/- tolerances.

So 4mH can be 3.6 to 4.4 mH and using a common wire size will indicate about 100-110DCR.

The DCR follows suit however does depend on wire size and number of turns.

Larger wire allows more current but requires more turns for the specified mH rating. That increases size, weight and cost.

Higher mH ratings filter DC more efficiently and holds current/voltage better.

 

[ReWind James]

Ok, I understand about tolerances but is there a "standard frequency" at which these are measured when being described? 1kHz? 800Hz?

50Hz might make sense but it doesn't work.

 

[mickeydg5]

Ok, I understand about tolerances but is there a "standard frequency" at which these are measured when being described? 1kHz? 800Hz?

50Hz might make sense but it doesn't work.

Since these are fairly large Henry ratings, like 3H-40H for most of these amplifiers, lower frequency test settings are used.
My LCR has the same specifications for those inductance values when set at either 100Hz, 120Hz or 1000Hz.

What LCR units did you use?

 

[JTM 100 Mk V]

To me the main concern is how they are different in terms of construction and tone. This is a power supply smoothing component or soothing component as I like to think. So to be simple, a smaller unit could sag in your power supply rail where as a larger unit could provide more firmness. Just like you could engineer these characteristics into an amp using the specs of a power transformer. Larger vs smaller diameter wiring. Also important to note, some us a resistor in place of a choke for tone or cost considerations.

I just wanted to check in, I've been laughing at the car collectors recently with their restoration societies poo pooing guys that just want to build shit that goes fast and is safe because the date codes on the parts are wrong. ;-) So my joke is . . . do we need to start the " IMRS " ? (International Marshall Restoration Society)

After all the guitar amp is one of mankinds finest moments invention wise, I'd like to continue thinking so at least.

One dude on another thread is trying to sell his amp, super nice guy and he is getting this treatment about his diodes not being ' period correct ' .

 

[michelebis]

they sound all different.. i tried on the same amp an Rs 20H, Drake 352-114, Dagnall 1999.
Dagnall is more compressed and aggressive sounding than the 114 even if specs should be the same