Bedroom Levels: 100w Superlead (w/attenuator) Vs Dsl20hr

[Michocaster]

I had a model year 1977 Marshall 1959SLP for several years. I get the attraction to them. But, I never found a good alternative on taming the beast. I tried attenuation and pedals. Both to me are major compromises. Reality is the 100W NMV amps are not bedroom amps. The sooner you realize that the better. There are literally dozens of great alternatives on the market today youre Head should be spinning. You don’t need to compromise. I’d go the new amp route. I’d start with Marshall but would look at more than just Marshall branded amps.

Have you experimented with pulling two tubes and triode-connecting the pentodes? That will turn our 100W head into around 25W's.

 

[clutch71]

I don't have any experience with a SLP but I'll throw an opinion out there based on my love of their tone. I recommend that you look into DSL (the old 50w version or the new 20w), but consider your speakers and pickups. 1x12 or 2x12 loaded with a G12M and vintage output pickups.

I'm close to that but I run a 1960B loaded with G12EVH with my DSL50. The green channel crunch, G12M, and low output Alnico 2's; Gibson Burstbucker 2 (neck), 3 (Bridge). That's close to Plexi tone in my head. YMMV.

 

[Ufoscorpion]

I could be wrong ( it has been known) but those who say you can't crank a 100 watt Plexi to bedroom levels have not tried a reactive load type attenuator . Watch Pete Thorns review of the two notes torpedo reload, the man don't lie .

 

[Ufoscorpion]

Have you experimented with pulling two tubes and triode-connecting the pentodes? That will turn our 100W head into around 25W's.

Still gonna be loud at 25w . I got a pair of pentode tad tone bones a few years ago ( same sort of thing as yellow jackets) and ran a pair of el84's in my 4104 supposedly at 18w , wasn't much difference in volume as with el34's in it .

 

[Ufoscorpion]

 

[ken361]

The dsl's play good at bedroom levels no problem I even record at it

 

[Michocaster]

I received my Friedman Motor City Distortion pedal yesterday and opened the box with the excitement of a kid on Christmas. I played with it all day yesterday and this morning. It's definitely going back for a refund, sigh.... This pedal disgust me. It reminds me of the high-end audio scene where you pay $300 for something that sounds like it cost $10 to build. My $150 Marshall combo amp produces almost identical, dare I say better, distortion tones. This Friedman has an annoying muddy fuzz coloration when the drive dial is even mildly engaged. The more you turn up the drive the worst your tone will get. I tried all sorts of tone control combinations until I gave up. This thing audibly has some diodes or transistors in the circuit. No way is this a real tube OD.

Now that Fryette PS-2 or torpedo reload is looking like a bargain if it can do what I think it can.

 

[Michocaster]

I could be wrong ( it has been known) but those who say you can't crank a 100 watt Plexi to bedroom levels have not tried a reactive load type attenuator . Watch Pete Thorns review of the two notes torpedo reload, the man don't lie .

Is there any solid reactive attenuator that doesn't have a reamp feature? I don't need a reamping attenuator, but if that's what I gotta do then it's what I gotta do.

 

[Ufoscorpion]

I know what you're saying, I only use the attenuator function on the reload . There's always the two notes ' captor ' , it has far less functions and it only has one preset attenuation level ( -20 db from memory) if that's all you need take a look . They are ohm's specific and are around £200 .

 

[jimmyjames]

Because they're old news now, and some owners may move to Axe/Kemper-type gear, used Aracom, Rivera and Tone King may show up at a good price.

 

[_ripper_]

I was also considering the captor, but -20db seems like A LOT of attenuation.

I know what you're saying, I only use the attenuator function on the reload . There's always the two notes ' captor ' , it has far less functions and it only has one preset attenuation level ( -20 db from memory) if that's all you need take a look . They are ohm's specific and are around £200 .

 

[Michocaster]

Well... just bought the Fryette PS-2. I was going to get a cheaper one such as the Rivera reactive load since I didn't initially think I would need a reamping device, but decided on it anyway since I could use the FX loop feature and might get the AxeFXIII or Kemper in the future. The Fryette power amp would work with any of the modeling amps. More of a "future proof" decision. I will report back soon how it affects the tone on my Superlead. The Friedman tube pedal did nothing for me, so all my hope in on the attenuator now.

 

[_ripper_]

Well... just bought the Fryette PS-2. I was going to get a cheaper one such as the Rivera reactive load since I didn't initially think I would need a reamping device, but decided on it anyway since I could use the FX loop feature and might get the AxeFXIII or Kemper in the future. The Fryette power amp would work with any of the modeling amps. More of a "future proof" decision. I will report back soon how it affects the tone on my Superlead. The Friedman tube pedal did nothing for me, so all my hope in on the attenuator now.

It's supposed to be the best one around. I think you'll be happy!

I get adequate results with a Jettenuator clone for attenuation and it's a simple resistive device. All I do it turn the treble from 5 to 6 on the amp to compensate for the treble loss. So I'm sure the Fryette will rock!

Keep us posted!

 

[paul-e-mann]

I received my Friedman Motor City Distortion pedal yesterday and opened the box with the excitement of a kid on Christmas. I played with it all day yesterday and this morning. It's definitely going back for a refund, sigh.... This pedal disgust me. It reminds me of the high-end audio scene where you pay $300 for something that sounds like it cost $10 to build. My $150 Marshall combo amp produces almost identical, dare I say better, distortion tones. This Friedman has an annoying muddy fuzz coloration when the drive dial is even mildly engaged. The more you turn up the drive the worst your tone will get. I tried all sorts of tone control combinations until I gave up. This thing audibly has some diodes or transistors in the circuit. No way is this a real tube OD.

Now that Fryette PS-2 or torpedo reload is looking like a bargain if it can do what I think it can.

Get yourself a ts9 and a sd1, that's all you need, you don't need no booteke pedals or attenuators.

 

[Michocaster]

Just wanted to update anyone who was following this thread.

I received my Fryette PS-2 attenuator a couple weeks ago and have been experimenting with it since then. The tone is changed a lot at high levels of attenuation but it has excellent EQ adjustments to compensate. The less attenuation the less it changes the tone, though. It is not hype, this thing was designed well. My only complaint is not about the attenuator itself, but the massive amount of heat that is generated from using it with my 100W head. The room starts to feel like an oven after just 10 - 15 mins of playing. (in a bedroom with air conditioning)

The Friedman Motor City pedal sucked badly. It has a terrible muddy congested sound. My 100W head even with high levels of attenuation is a lot better, but is it really worth it over just buying a decent pedal? Hmm, I think it depends on how deep your pockets are and the amount of attentuation you need. I can get excellent sound running my cheap led clipping Marshall 15W combo into my non-MV 100W head as a booster with the gain at about 3/10. Sounds way better than the Friedman pedal and very much comparable (but different) to the Fryette / 100W head with attentuation. I'm sure if you found a pedal you loved that you wouldn't even care about getting an attenuator at all.

If anyone is in the similar boat. Buy a second MV amp or MV combo for your practice rig and just crank your non-MV amps when the neighbors are gone. Choosing an OD pedal for your distortion tone is going to be a challenge with all the choices out there, but even that route is sufficient if you get lucky. Now I see why most of you guys have so many amps in your sigs.

Somehow the itch isn't gone and I am now looking into the DSL100HR or a JVM205H to keep things simple and not drain the power grid too much. Man, this stuff never ends.

 

[Geeze]

Update from me as well. I put a quad of KT66's in a 2555X and it is amazing at any level. The high volume is sweeter and has better note definition than the EL34s. At low volume couch attenuated it doesn't need a pedal to get a very good tone.

I'm going to demo a 1959 on Saturday and already bought another quad of KT66's for it as well. Probably put a PPIMV in it in a few weeks after I air it out.

Russ

 

[BowerR64]

What is a Marshall MV? Master volume?

I have 2 JCM900s, a Vintage modern, Peavey windsor, Krank Chadwick and a little 1980 jr. The sound i get with a Joyo ultimate drive OD pedal into the clean channel 1 on a Fender super champ X2 is a nice sound to my ears. Its not the best sound of all my amps but for a bedroom level amp i like it alot.

I dont use the OD pedal as a "distortion pedal" imo it sounds different then a distortion pedal. I have a Boss DS-2 which does both and to me it sounds better in the OD mode in the front then to use it as a distorion pedal.

 

[JohnH]

Sounds like you are trying the best state-of-the-art solutions to this issue and Im sure youll find your tone there!

I certainlly wouldnt advise you to do the following. All Im gonna say is that this is what I would do, if I wanted to crank that amp.

Simple passive resistive attenuators. Most people will explain how they wreck your tone. I say its because they are not designed right. If that is of any interest, my thread is here:

http://www.marshallforum.com/threads/a-fixed-resistive-attenuator-design-and-testing.98285/page-2

Im having good success keeping the tone at high attenuation, with a simple build with one or two fixed attenuation steps. Im working with a 50w amp and 8 ohms, but I believe the principles are scalable. I assume you need 100w, maybe 150w cranked, and probably run 16ohm cabs?

Lets say youd like that amp to output as a nominally 1w amp (but any number can be worked out). A network of power resistors can be derived to let the amp see 16ohms, about 1.5-2x that as an output impedance for the speaker (thats the key to keeping the best tone). 100w power resistors can be bought for $1 to $2 each from china, aluminium clad and ready to be bolted to a heat sink. With 150w going in, each would see only about 30w max with a network of 6. This is very simple and robust. For extended thrashing, a big heatsink is key but to try it for a few minutes, its not so critical if its small.

Just sayin...

 

[Michocaster]

Update from me as well. I put a quad of KT66's in a 2555X and it is amazing at any level. The high volume is sweeter and has better note definition than the EL34s. At low volume couch attenuated it doesn't need a pedal to get a very good tone.

I'm going to demo a 1959 on Saturday and already bought another quad of KT66's for it as well. Probably put a PPIMV in it in a few weeks after I air it out.

Russ

Hey Russ!

I'm thinking the KT66's are helping clean up the Jube's darker (dare I say congested tone). KT66's are supposed to breakup less and sound a bit clearer. I tried the Jube head and didn't like it for that reason, so I think the KT66's would help it a lot in that regard. I'm going to be very curious about your opinion on the 1959 with KT66's, though. Those are pretty articulate already.

This might be blasphemy around here, but the cleanest most articulate amp I tried so far has been the Artisan 100. This is an 1959 on steroids and might be way too articulate for some peoples taste. This amp forced me to clean up my playing and is very revealing. I'm not exactly sure if that's a good thing or not. Since last year when I first started posting around here, I temporarily had a Marshall Superlead and a JMP. Nowadays I'm just trying to find something with a master volume for some bedroom level tones to experiment with such as the DSL or JVM.

 

[Michocaster]

Sounds like you are trying the best state-of-the-art solutions to this issue and Im sure youll find your tone there!

I certainlly wouldnt advise you to do the following. All Im gonna say is that this is what I would do, if I wanted to crank that amp.

Simple passive resistive attenuators. Most people will explain how they wreck your tone. I say its because they are not designed right. If that is of any interest, my thread is here:

http://www.marshallforum.com/threads/a-fixed-resistive-attenuator-design-and-testing.98285/page-2

Im having good success keeping the tone at high attenuation, with a simple build with one or two fixed attenuation steps. Im working with a 50w amp and 8 ohms, but I believe the principles are scalable. I assume you need 100w, maybe 150w cranked, and probably run 16ohm cabs?

Lets say youd like that amp to output as a nominally 1w amp (but any number can be worked out). A network of power resistors can be derived to let the amp see 16ohms, about 1.5-2x that as an output impedance for the speaker (thats the key to keeping the best tone). 100w power resistors can be bought for $1 to $2 each from china, aluminium clad and ready to be bolted to a heat sink. With 150w going in, each would see only about 30w max with a network of 6. This is very simple and robust. For extended thrashing, a big heatsink is key but to try it for a few minutes, its not so critical if its small.

Just sayin...

Ah, don't get me wrong. The Fryette is an amazing piece of gear and it only changes the tone at talking levels. To anyone reading this who needs an attenuator go ahead and get one, it's amazing. It's just my room is heating up like an oven and I have way too much gear all over the place... and I realized most of the wow factor of my 100W head was actually the sheer clarity at high volume and the air moving, not necessarily the "tone". I guess I just feel like attenuating is overkill with the wear on my amp, the heat generated, and the cost involved... all that effort just for practicing some licks. Your idea looks very cost effective, though.