Celestion Vintage 30's 4x12 vs 2x12

[charvel2]

I have some '96 Vintage 30's(16 ohm) that came out of a Sonic cabinet that are well broken in. Installed them in a 1960A and run with a DSL 50. They sound very good but there was something that I
didn't like tone wise and can't quite articulate. Anyway, took them out and put a couple in a Avatar Vintage 2x12 that I wired at 8 ohms and couldn't believe how different they sound. Like so much better as sound a little brighter and punchier. I realize cabs are different but was curious if anyone has any ideas why that is or have had similar experience. Rock on!!

 

[paul hancher]

everything makes a difference. cab construction, types of materials used, impedance choice, all of these variables and more can affect performance. how they affect performance can be interesting. there are some basic tenets that you can use to anticipate results but many times those results can surprise you and not be what you expect.

for instance lets’ take one variable: types of materials used. in general solid woods such as pine or birch and plywoods made from woods such as birch are considered superior sonically for speaker cabs and have traditionally been used for higher quality builds. however mdf composites are being used more frequently with positive results and in the future we will probably see new materials developed that could surpass the traditional favorites. pine and birch cabs are generally more “lively” and resonant but there is no guarantee that this will be your result.

experimenting with the variables can be both frustrating and rewarding. it can also be expensive. good luck

 

[GuitarIV]

I have some '96 Vintage 30's(16 ohm) that came out of a Sonic cabinet that are well broken in. Installed them in a 1960A and run with a DSL 50. They sound very good but there was something that I
didn't like tone wise and can't quite articulate. Anyway, took them out and put a couple in a Avatar Vintage 2x12 that I wired at 8 ohms and couldn't believe how different they sound. Like so much better as sound a little brighter and punchier. I realize cabs are different but was curious if anyone has any ideas why that is or have had similar experience. Rock on!!

I once played a Laney IRT Studio amp at my local music store. I tried it through a Marshall 412 with G12T-75s and it sounded good. Then I hooked it up to an Egnater 412 with V30s and it was a thin, raspy, honky and nasal mess.

A few months later I bought the Laney IRT Studio amp and also got a JCM900 412 straight cab. I ditched the 75s and loaded it up with Marshall branded V30 speakers. A match made in heaven.

My point being cabinets play a huge part in sound. You can take the same speakers, put them in 3 different cabinets and they will suddenly all sound different. Speakers themselves also change sound depending on how new or old they are (broken in) and how much you push em. It's just another journey on the crazy quest for the perfect sound

 

[Kinkless Tetrode]

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[spacerocker]

This is strange! - I recently put 2 well run-in V30s into a 1936 cab, and they sounded OK and had the V30 sound - but sounded MUCH darker than my 4 x 12 also loaded with V30s! I thought this might be because the top 2 speakers on a 4x12 are higher off the ground, and tilted slightly backwards, and therefore the 4x12 sounds brighter - but this is the exact opposite of what you are reporting!

The only thing I can think of is cab construction. Aren't the Avatars all-ply, whilst some of the Marshalls use some MDF?

 

[charvel2]

The Avatar is all Birch plywood and and is the BluesBreaker style. The Marshall cab is all ply except the back which is MDF. I believe Marshall started using MDF for the back piece sometime between '71-'73. I was reading somewhere that there are players that feel a 4x12 has less mid range(may have been That Pedal Show as they compared 1x12, 2x12 ect.) than say a 2x12 and after pondering that would have to say that is what i experienced. There are so many variables and everyone hears things differently. I just thought was interesting how much better I liked the V30's in my 2x12 compared to 4x12.

 

[headcrash]

I'd say the distance of the speakers to each other and of course the position of the cab in the room and the listener's position make a huge difference. Also the distance of the speaker(s) to the floor make a difference. There is phase related cancellation/enhancement issues to be considered, which occurs everytime, we put more than one sound source relatively close to each other, and everytime we put sound sources in a room and throw considerable sound pressure levels into that room.
Also the mixing of different speakers in one cabinet might result in phase related sound alteration: different cones might have a different slope thus the depth of the whole speaker is larger, thus leading to different places/depths in relation to the baffle, where the soundwave leaves the cone and thus will interact (cancellation/enhancement) with the soundwave of the same frequency which leaves the other speaker.

I'd say, that we more often discuss issues that are based on room acoustics or other acoustical phenomenons, instead of discussing issues related to the speakers or cabinets themselves.
It is not without reason, that professional PA systems are calibrated to the room they are run in.
How often did we notice, that our cabinets sounded huge and full and warm and nice, when being in our small, cozy rehearsal room, wheres on stage it sounds thin, canny or whatever.