Considering a JCM800...a lot of questions.

[V-man]

Maybe you should consider a JVM instead. It can do the JCM 800 sounds as well as Plexi tones.

He has a JVM and a full appreciation of all it does/almost does and does not.

I spent a good number of years blowing $ on everything “close-ish” to a 2203 (2550/1959RR/MF350 [poor man’s JVM]) beside my JCM800 Super Bass and 4100 DR. The 1959RR blew me away in the way a Plexi will, but nothing else did that thing until I finally got that 2203KK and just as my quest had ended, a killer deal on a 2203 JMP twisted my arm into that purchase. Had I that KK or JMP from the start, I would probably have enjoyed a lot fewer Marshalls (before selling them) as that was the one.

Based on what I read, I already suspect he’s there… in that group of us who will not be satisfied with “87% correct” and even if the value of that 13% is dubious for the extra squeeze, it will nevertheless bug the shit out of him for years until he finally takes the plunge and settles the issue for himself.

 

[PowerTube44]

He has a JVM and a full appreciation of all it does/almost does and does not.

I spent a good number of years blowing $ on everything “close-ish” to a 2203 (2550/1959RR/MF350 [poor man’s JVM]) beside my JCM800 Super Bass and 4100 DR. The 1959RR blew me away in the way a Plexi will, but nothing else did that thing until I finally got that 2203KK and just as my quest had ended, a killer deal on a 2203 JMP twisted my arm into that purchase. Had I that KK or JMP from the start, I would probably have enjoyed a lot fewer Marshalls (before selling them) as that was the one.

Based on what I read, I already suspect he’s there… in that group of us who will not be satisfied with “87% correct” and even if the value of that 13% is dubious for the extra squeeze, it will nevertheless bug the shit out of him for years until he finally takes the plunge and settles the issue for himself.

I see. Yeah, I can relate. It's sort of like the effects in the Boss GT-100. They're about 65-80% accurate to the real thing, and if one is important to me, that won't cut it.

 

[V-man]

It's sort of like the effects in the Boss GT-100. They're about 65-80% accurate to the real thing, and if one is important to me, that won't cut it.

You reaffirm why I have way too many pedals and not a single multi-unit (or desire to get one).

 

[PowerTube44]

You reaffirm why I have way too many pedals and not a single multi-unit (or desire to get one).

Well... the thing with me is that I haven't owned most of the pedals emulated by the GT-100, or the preamps. But in the case of the few I have, it's been a pretty poor emulation. For example, I have a Boss Metal Zone, and the emulation of it not only isn't even in the ballpark, but it doesn't even have all of the controls that a real Metal Zone has. Likewise, the EQ doesn't have the magic of a real GE-7, so I run one of those outboard. The phaser also sucks in my opinion, so I'm about to add a real one to the chain.

I find the delay, chorus, reverb, flanger, and a few others very useful, but I haven't owned the real Boss pedal they're trying to emulate.

 

[giblesp]

HOOOOKAY.

So I'm doing the thing that most guitar nerds do and thinking of getting a JCM800. I've played one in a shop before and had my balls rattled and never forgot that feeling so...it's calling me.

However, I have questions. Some amp-specific, some not amp-specific.

QUESTION #1)
I have a Gibson Les Paul and I'm considering trading it for the JCM800. My Les Paul is a 2010 LP Standard in Ebony. It's in good condition BUT it's had a fair bit of work done to it. It's been the most "Gibson" that I've ever met. This means it's had the inevitable headstock repair, but it's also had the electronics replaced (twice) and a new bridge pickup. All done by a pro and realistically speaking, it's a fucking great guitar. However in the process of MAKING it a great guitar, it shattered my soul 30 times. So I want to get rid of it. Here in Australia, a Gibby LP sells second hand for about 3k, and a JVM800 for around 2500.

Would you regard swapping that Les Paul for a JCM800? I acknowledge it's a bit of a tricky question as the guitar has (required) work done on it. Which on paper devalues the guitar and makes it a harder sell. Speaking as a customer, I'd be much more inclined to go for a stock Les Paul rather than a repaired one, unless I had played it in person and checked it out, but who can be fucked doing that right? So I can acknowledge that this trade on paper probably falls under a maybe category rather than a that's a good deal category. Thoughts?

QUESTION #2)
I'm not necessarily after a high gain metal monster. I'm more after a Marshall that is amazing at Blues\Rock with the option of pushing it into Metal. Basically, I'm kinda after a Plexi with a bit of extra gain. Is there a specific version of the JCM800 I should consider or do they all sorta have the same level of gain? Could I do a reasonable impression of Hendrix by throwing a fuzz face into a JCM800? Can I play Highway To Hell on a JCM800 convincingly? Can I play Iron Maiden on a JCM800 convincingly?

QUESTION #3)
That being said, since I'm a Metallica fanboy I'm interested in getting somebody to do a Jose mod. How much does that fuck with the amp overall? Does it just increase the amount of gain available? Or does it completely fuck with everything on the amp? AKA: Is a Jose modded JCM800 a completely different beast to a normal JCM800? Is the Jose mod something that can be switchable? Could I do a reasonable impression of Hendrix by throwing a fuzz face into a Jose JCM800? Can I play Highway To Hell on a Jose JCM800 convincingly? Can I play Iron Maiden on a Jose JCM800 convincingly?

QUESTION #4)
Are the reissues legit? It's probably the safest way for me to grab a JCM800 'cos I would put money on it that there's some absolute dog 800s out in the wild begging to be put out of their misery. I'm also interested in the clean channel for versatility's sake.

QUESTION $5)
Is there something I'm not considering about a potential JCM800?

1) What does it mean to you? Sounds like you've made your own mark on it. It could be hard to replace.

I've never owned an 800, but if you want to get close to Hendrix tones and Maiden, you may want to try out a DSL and JVM.

As another poster mentioned, you'll get much more versatility with a JVM.

Also consider; are you able to crank an 800 where you live? If volume is an issue, you'd possibly have to invest in a load ox with an 800 such as the Captor X.

The DSL and especially the JVM, have excellent master controls enabling you to get great mid-high gain tones at low volumes.

 

[giblesp]

I see. Yeah, I can relate. It's sort of like the effects in the Boss GT-100. They're about 65-80% accurate to the real thing, and if one is important to me, that won't cut it.

I don't look at the JVM, as trying to emulate other amps. Its a unique amp with its own signature sound. Its not a modeller or multi effects.

I could reverse the argument; an 800 could get close to the pristine cleans of the JVM, but never quite get there. And would never get anywhere close to the JVM's high gain.

 

[V-man]

I don't look at the JVM, as trying to emulate other amps. Its a unique amp with its own signature sound. Its not a modeller or multi effects.

Its “whatever” channel (orange/green IDK) was literally modeled after a 2203. It was Marshall’s attempt to more or less provide a Swiss Army Knife ala 6100, V2.0 to include the venerable 2203. I would not disagree that it has a signature sound on it’s red channel or whatnot but the intent to include some sort of 2203 “tribute” or emulation is unmistakeable.

I could reverse the argument; an 800 could get close to the pristine cleans of the JVM, but never quite get there. And would never get anywhere close to the JVM's high gain.

This certainly is an argument… but is the JVM known for its “pristine cleans” as it relates to other amps known for the same? I daresay I have never heard someone shopping certain Fenders, Hiwatts, etc…and the JVM for the best clean.

The same can be said for the other end of the JVM spectrum. It certainly is no less capable a 3-channel metal amp as the 5150/6505, Dual/Triple Rec, Fireball, SLO, etc. But are people really looking for that “JVM Red” tone? I know there’s more than a couple 5150/Rec type pedal preamps, etc. but I have yet to hear of “JVM red” or whatnot as a popular tone quest. In fact, I would wager the Friedman (IIRC modeled on pissed off MkII type circuits) would be a much more popular consideration for hi gain shoppers today than the JVM is.

With that said, the 2203 is a legend in its own right for tones in its territory, (arguably) better than Mesa Marks, Peaveys, Even Friedman by some owners’ accounts for that thing. The JVM is a very good and capable amp whose greatness is consistency and the sum of its many features as opposed to some specific tone/channel that everybody feels the need to add to the arsenal.

 

[giblesp]

Its “whatever” channel (orange/green IDK) was literally modeled after a 2203. It was Marshall’s attempt to more or less provide a Swiss Army Knife ala 6100, V2.0 to include the venerable 2203. I would not disagree that it has a signature sound on it’s red channel or whatnot but the intent to include some sort of 2203 “tribute” or emulation is unmistakeable.



This certainly is an argument… but is the JVM known for its “pristine cleans” as it relates to other amps known for the same? I daresay I have never heard someone shopping certain Fenders, Hiwatts, etc…and the JVM for the best clean.

The same can be said for the other end of the JVM spectrum. It certainly is no less capable a 3-channel metal amp as the 5150/6505, Dual/Triple Rec, Fireball, SLO, etc. But are people really looking for that “JVM Red” tone? I know there’s more than a couple 5150/Rec type pedal preamps, etc. but I have yet to hear of “JVM red” or whatnot as a popular tone quest. In fact, I would wager the Friedman (IIRC modeled on pissed off MkII type circuits) would be a much more popular consideration for hi gain shoppers today than the JVM is.

With that said, the 2203 is a legend in its own right for tones in its territory, (arguably) better than Mesa Marks, Peaveys, Even Friedman by some owners’ accounts for that thing. The JVM is a very good and capable amp whose greatness is consistency and the sum of its many features as opposed to some specific tone/channel that everybody feels the need to add to the arsenal.

I'd say the JVM has the best clean, but that's my personal taste. Best clean for me.

Never really read up on what Marshall's specific intent or influences for the amp where, but I'd say it has a signature sound that distuinguishes it from other Marshalls. Too compressed and 'modern,' to sound identical to a classic Marshal amp.

I encourage people to go their own way with it, get their own tone and approach. I think if someone gets a JVM expecting to get a Plexi, 800 etc all in one they'll be dissapointed.

It goes from pristine clean to very high gain, and does everything in between with excellence. Good fx loop, nice digital reverb. Amazing amp IMO. I had to get the combo version also.

Be worth the OP trying one next to a 2203 if possible, as well as a DSL.

 

[HFloyd]

For the record, I'm the guy who made this massive deep dive video.



But as I said at the end of the video.

A JVM is like...an 8\10 Plexi or an 8\10 JCM800, with a very legitimate clean channel and an absurd high gain option.

But I also said that the joy of a JCM800 or a Plexi is that it is STRICTLY a JCM800 or STRICTLY a Plexi. It can't do anything else or pretend to be anything else. Ergo, if you need an 800\Plexi...just go get an 800 or a Plexi.

Which is the position I'm finding myself in. I want that extra raw push, that extra punch, and a wider dynamic range from one channel. I want less saturation and more in your face grind.

It's almost like the JVM has fallen into the uncanny valley whereby it's so close to being spot on, that...it's irking me that it doesn't have that last 10% of glory.

But I'm also very used to how versatile the JVM is and I'm not too keen on sacrificing TOO much versatility for the sake of thrash metal. I spend an awful lot of time playing blues and pedals with my JVM (badly) so I don't want to lose that.

 

[paul-e-mann]

For the record, I'm the guy who made this massive deep dive video.



But as I said at the end of the video.

A JVM is like...an 8\10 Plexi or an 8\10 JCM800, with a very legitimate clean channel and an absurd high gain option.

But I also said that the joy of a JCM800 or a Plexi is that it is STRICTLY a JCM800 or STRICTLY a Plexi. It can't do anything else or pretend to be anything else. Ergo, if you need an 800\Plexi...just go get an 800 or a Plexi.

Which is the position I'm finding myself in. I want that extra raw push, that extra punch, and a wider dynamic range from one channel. I want less saturation and more in your face grind.

It's almost like the JVM has fallen into the uncanny valley whereby it's so close to being spot on, that...it's irking me that it doesn't have that last 10% of glory.

But I'm also very used to how versatile the JVM is and I'm not too keen on sacrificing TOO much versatility for the sake of thrash metal. I spend an awful lot of time playing blues and pedals with my JVM (badly) so I don't want to lose that.

Get the 800 there is nothing like it as you already know, but you will need some external device to push it into distortion at reasonable volume, unless you crank it which is not a reasonable thing to do unless you're on a big stage (but otherwise can be done with an attenuator). There's nothing wrong with your favorite OD pedal in front of it. Plainly said, I love my 2204.

 

[giblesp]

For the record, I'm the guy who made this massive deep dive video.



But as I said at the end of the video.

A JVM is like...an 8\10 Plexi or an 8\10 JCM800, with a very legitimate clean channel and an absurd high gain option.

That's in your experience and opinion though.

I'm going to need the distinct JVM signature sound, at Plexi or 800 distortion levels.

But that's me, it's going to be different for someone else.

That's why I say to players, try the amp yourself with no preconceptions. There's channels and knobs aplenty on the amp, just go your own way with it.

Sounds like the OP fell for the 800 sound, my advice was to consider volume requirements. It's worth comparing a DSL and JVM, if lower volumes are needed. Or get a Captor X or equivalent for the 800.

 

[HFloyd]

UPDATE:

...

Yeaaaaaahhhh it's gonna happen.

I'm gonna sell that LP of mine, use the money to get a JCM800.

Might take a while buuuuut...fuck it. Let's gooooooooo

 

[Tatzmann]

Which model? 2203 or 2203X? I'd skip anything else with an 800 tag on it, except the 1959/1987 version, but that's probably not what you're after anyway if you say "JCM800". It's better to converse in modelnumbers to avoid confusion.

 

[marshallmellowed]

For the record, I'm the guy who made this massive deep dive video.



But as I said at the end of the video.

A JVM is like...an 8\10 Plexi or an 8\10 JCM800, with a very legitimate clean channel and an absurd high gain option.

But I also said that the joy of a JCM800 or a Plexi is that it is STRICTLY a JCM800 or STRICTLY a Plexi. It can't do anything else or pretend to be anything else. Ergo, if you need an 800\Plexi...just go get an 800 or a Plexi.

Which is the position I'm finding myself in. I want that extra raw push, that extra punch, and a wider dynamic range from one channel. I want less saturation and more in your face grind.

It's almost like the JVM has fallen into the uncanny valley whereby it's so close to being spot on, that...it's irking me that it doesn't have that last 10% of glory.

But I'm also very used to how versatile the JVM is and I'm not too keen on sacrificing TOO much versatility for the sake of thrash metal. I spend an awful lot of time playing blues and pedals with my JVM (badly) so I don't want to lose that.

I concur, the JVM just doesn't get there when it comes to an actual 2203/2204 or Plexi. What the JVM is good at, is giving the player tons of channel switching options, which in live situations, may have a higher priority than actual tone & feel.

 

[Crikey]

let m

HOOOOKAY.

So I'm doing the thing that most guitar nerds do and thinking of getting a JCM800. I've played one in a shop before and had my balls rattled and never forgot that feeling so...it's calling me.

However, I have questions. Some amp-specific, some not amp-specific.

QUESTION #1)
I have a Gibson Les Paul and I'm considering trading it for the JCM800. My Les Paul is a 2010 LP Standard in Ebony. It's in good condition BUT it's had a fair bit of work done to it. It's been the most "Gibson" that I've ever met. This means it's had the inevitable headstock repair, but it's also had the electronics replaced (twice) and a new bridge pickup. All done by a pro and realistically speaking, it's a fucking great guitar. However in the process of MAKING it a great guitar, it shattered my soul 30 times. So I want to get rid of it. Here in Australia, a Gibby LP sells second hand for about 3k, and a JVM800 for around 2500.

Would you regard swapping that Les Paul for a JCM800? I acknowledge it's a bit of a tricky question as the guitar has (required) work done on it. Which on paper devalues the guitar and makes it a harder sell. Speaking as a customer, I'd be much more inclined to go for a stock Les Paul rather than a repaired one, unless I had played it in person and checked it out, but who can be fucked doing that right? So I can acknowledge that this trade on paper probably falls under a maybe category rather than a that's a good deal category. Thoughts?

QUESTION #2)
I'm not necessarily after a high gain metal monster. I'm more after a Marshall that is amazing at Blues\Rock with the option of pushing it into Metal. Basically, I'm kinda after a Plexi with a bit of extra gain. Is there a specific version of the JCM800 I should consider or do they all sorta have the same level of gain? Could I do a reasonable impression of Hendrix by throwing a fuzz face into a JCM800? Can I play Highway To Hell on a JCM800 convincingly? Can I play Iron Maiden on a JCM800 convincingly?

QUESTION #3)
That being said, since I'm a Metallica fanboy I'm interested in getting somebody to do a Jose mod. How much does that fuck with the amp overall? Does it just increase the amount of gain available? Or does it completely fuck with everything on the amp? AKA: Is a Jose modded JCM800 a completely different beast to a normal JCM800? Is the Jose mod something that can be switchable? Could I do a reasonable impression of Hendrix by throwing a fuzz face into a Jose JCM800? Can I play Highway To Hell on a Jose JCM800 convincingly? Can I play Iron Maiden on a Jose JCM800 convincingly?

QUESTION #4)
Are the reissues legit? It's probably the safest way for me to grab a JCM800 'cos I would put money on it that there's some absolute dog 800s out in the wild begging to be put out of their misery. I'm also interested in the clean channel for versatility's sake.

QUESTION $5)
Is there something I'm not considering about a potential JCM800?

let me save you some time. Get a Friendman runt and you will have a plexish MV amp with gain channel; and clean channel a 50loud watts and tone for days.
its what a Marshall would be today

 

[HFloyd]

Which model? 2203 or 2203X? I'd skip anything else with an 800 tag on it, except the 1959/1987 version, but that's probably not what you're after anyway if you say "JCM800". It's better to converse in modelnumbers to avoid confusion.

2203X. Since I'm a big pedal guy, an Effects loop seems like an excellent idea. I've seen a bunch of shootouts online where people compare a reissue to their favourite 800 and most end up saying the 2203X is just as good with very very minor differences.

I am also fortunate enough to know an amazing amp tech who is a Marshall fanboy. One day I'll drop it off at him and say: "Do your thing" and anything that isn't tip-top Marshall glory, he'll sort it out. I figure the 2203X will give me the most versatility and kick as much ass as any other JCM800.

I concur, the JVM just doesn't get there when it comes to an actual 2203/2204 or Plexi. What the JVM is good at, is giving the player tons of channel switching options, which in live situations, may have a higher priority than actual tone & feel.

The JVM is insanely versatile and I would suggest does more than any other Marshall. I would argue it is the Marshall for people who aren't Marshall fanboys. It'll absolutely get close enough for 90% of people and honestly in a mix, in most circumstances I feel like people would often not be able to spot the difference.

...

But if you are a Marshall fanboy (as I've become after owning the JVM), you're going to want that extra 10% that the JVM doesn't give. The fact that the JVM gets so close ends up almost being an irritation that it doesn't give that extra 10% because you can feel it's almost where you want it to be.

Honestly, I would recommend the JVM for anybody's "first Marshall". If you don't know what Marshall to get, the JVM is a great starting spot. It's good enough that it might do the job for you, but it's good enough that it'll likely guide you to which Marshall is gonna be your favourite and preferred Marshall, which for me seems to be a JCM800

let me save you some time. Get a Friendman runt and you will have a plexish MV amp with gain channel; and clean channel a 50loud watts and tone for days.
its what a Marshall would be today

I've played Friedman and while they absolutely do kick ass...

...

Still not a JCM800. They're somebody's interpretation of a JCM800. It's a fantastic, awesome sounding interpretation, but at the end of the day, I just want a straight up JCM800.

Like one of the things that's so attractive to me about JCM800s is how raw, unrefined and totally devoid of bells and whistles. It's an old Land Cruiser vs. a Land Rover.

 

[marshallmellowed]

Maybe you should consider a JVM instead. It can do the JCM 800 sounds as well as Plexi tones.

2203X. Since I'm a big pedal guy, an Effects loop seems like an excellent idea. I've seen a bunch of shootouts online where people compare a reissue to their favourite 800 and most end up saying the 2203X is just as good with very very minor differences.

I am also fortunate enough to know an amazing amp tech who is a Marshall fanboy. One day I'll drop it off at him and say: "Do your thing" and anything that isn't tip-top Marshall glory, he'll sort it out. I figure the 2203X will give me the most versatility and kick as much ass as any other JCM800.



The JVM is insanely versatile and I would suggest does more than any other Marshall. I would argue it is the Marshall for people who aren't Marshall fanboys. It'll absolutely get close enough for 90% of people and honestly in a mix, in most circumstances I feel like people would often not be able to spot the difference.

...

But if you are a Marshall fanboy (as I've become after owning the JVM), you're going to want that extra 10% that the JVM doesn't give. The fact that the JVM gets so close ends up almost being an irritation that it doesn't give that extra 10% because you can feel it's almost where you want it to be.

Honestly, I would recommend the JVM for anybody's "first Marshall". If you don't know what Marshall to get, the JVM is a great starting spot. It's good enough that it might do the job for you, but it's good enough that it'll likely guide you to which Marshall is gonna be your favourite and preferred Marshall, which for me seems to be a JCM800


I've played Friedman and while they absolutely do kick ass...

...

Still not a JCM800. They're somebody's interpretation of a JCM800. It's a fantastic, awesome sounding interpretation, but at the end of the day, I just want a straight up JCM800.

Like one of the things that's so attractive to me about JCM800s is how raw, unrefined and totally devoid of bells and whistles. It's an old Land Cruiser vs. a Land Rover.

Oh, believe me, I'm very familiar with the JVM's. I've had 3 of them, two 410H's, and one JVM Satriani. All gone now.

 

[PowerTube44]

Oh, believe me, I'm very familiar with the JVM's. I've had 3 of them, two 410H's, and one JVM Satriani. All gone now.

Yeah. I had a 410H for a few years and just never grew to love it.

 

[Tatzmann]

For some guys the loop in the 2203x doesn't cut it. There was even one guy on here that was never fully satisfied how his 2203X sounded. After ripping out the loop he was.

Just a heads up.

If you got a guy he can install a Metro-loop. Never heard complains about those.

 

[marshallmellowed]

For some guys the loop in the 2203x doesn't cut it. There was even one guy on here that was never fully satisfied how his 2203X sounded. After ripping out the loop he was.

Just a heads up.

If you got a guy he can install a Metro-loop. Never heard complains about those.

Guess it depends on the person listening. The loop is "True Bypass", and I've switched the loop in and out on several occasions while playing through the amp with a patch cable in the loop. If there's a difference, to me, it's miniscule. I think most of the complaints are probably more due to the actual devices guys are using in the loop, and how well they work with that particular loop. My devices all work fine and sound great through the stock loop. It's hard to design a "one size fits all" loop, with thousands (or more) of outboard devices out there. The Metro loop is very good, I put one in my JTM45, but I don't see, or "hear" a need to replace the 2203x loop.