Current production preamps tubes that are different enough to compare?

[What?]

I'm going to try some different current production preamp tubes in my plexi clone. Which ones are different enough to matter? Current tubes in this amp are:

V1: JJ ECC83S, Ruby 12AX7ACZ HG
V2: TAD 7025/12AX7 High Grade (maybe someone here can help me identify the manufacturer)
V3: JJ ECC83S, Ruby 12AX7ACZ HG
V4/V5: JJ E34L, Apex matching, Current: 28, Transconductance: 7100
Rectifier: JJ GZ34S, TAD 5AR4CZ

I would like to get some more overall clarity and sweetness without getting more icepick. With the treble up, I think the amp tends toward a bit of icepick now. On my list to try are Tung Sol reissue and JJ ECC803S. Is the Sovtek 12AX7LPS very different from the JJ ECC803S?

 

[neikeel]

I'm going to try some different current production preamp tubes in my plexi clone. Which ones are different enough to matter? Current tubes in this amp are:

V1: JJ ECC83S, Ruby 12AX7ACZ HG
V2: TAD 7025/12AX7 High Grade (maybe someone here can help me identify the manufacturer)
V3: JJ ECC83S, Ruby 12AX7ACZ HG
V4/V5: JJ E34L, Apex matching, Current: 28, Transconductance: 7100
Rectifier: JJ GZ34S, TAD 5AR4CZ

I would like to get some more overall clarity and sweetness without getting more icepick. With the treble up, I think the amp tends toward a bit of icepick now. On my list to try are Tung Sol reissue and JJ ECC803S. Is the Sovtek 12AX7LPS very different from the JJ ECC803S?

What plexi clone is this? JTM50?

 

[What?]

What plexi clone is this? JTM50?

Sort of. Plexi 51. Lots of switching options builtin.
Manual: http://www.ceriatone.com/ceriatone/wp-content/uploads/2020/04/Ceriatone-Plexi51-Manual.pdf
Layout: http://www.ceriatone.com/ceriatone/wp-content/uploads/2020/09/Plexi51-All-Access-21-July2020.jpg
Product page: http://www.ceriatone.com/british-style-plexi51-access/

 

[What?]

I'm thinking lately that the breakup is more ragged in the mids than I'd like it to be, especially at mid gain and up. I would like to smooth it out some and get some richer upper harmonics without going high gain.

Mine leans in this direction:



I would like to lean more in this direction (but brighter):



Just looking for now to see what differences preamp tubes can make (probably not as much a difference as what I'm looking for).

 

[jeffb]

I'm going to try some different current production preamp tubes in my plexi clone. Which ones are different enough to matter? Current tubes in this amp are:

V1: JJ ECC83S, Ruby 12AX7ACZ HG

Same tube- Ruby is just handpicked for gain and low noise.

V2: TAD 7025/12AX7 High Grade (maybe someone here can help me identify the manufacturer)

TAD is Sino/Shugang

V3: JJ ECC83S, Ruby 12AX7ACZ HG

Again, same tube.

I would like to get some more overall clarity and sweetness without getting more icepick. With the treble up, I think the amp tends toward a bit of icepick now. On my list to try are Tung Sol reissue and JJ ECC803S. Is the Sovtek 12AX7LPS very different from the JJ ECC803S?

803S from JJ has more highs/clarity and less gain than either the JJECC83S or the Sovtek LPS. JJ803S is one of my CP production faves for V1 and PI.

LPS is very warm/dark and grainy. I find they work best as a PI, but they can really darken up your amp.

Tung Sol RI 12ax7/ECC83 is big and bold- A little tubby on the low mids, a little grainy on the highs.


I think everything is worth trying

You might pick up:

EHX 12ax7 and Svetlana 12ax7- both of these are relatives of the Tung Sol, but they all sound different.
JJ E83CC frame grid- new tube from JJ. Clearer than JJECC83S, more mids, same high gain and big tone. Sounds more like an old Iron Curtain tube


For power tubes I like the JJ E34L and EL34IIs and KT77s. But if you are complaining about highs, then avoid the JJ El34II/KT77 and all the russian New Sensor tubes save for the Svetlana. All of them, (besides the current Svetlana EL34) tend to be brighter than the JJE34Ls. You might also give a JJ 6ca7 a whirl.

 

[IOSEPHVS]

Be sure to include the Mullard CV4004.

 

[What?]

jeffb, the E83CC sounds like it would be different enough to be worth trying. I don't dislike brighter power tubes, but I have some winged C's that I could try for that. My impression of the E34L's is that they're kind of puffy in the lows. Big in the lows, but probably not the best clarity in the lows.

 

[What?]

Be sure to include the Mullard CV4004.

What's different about it vs. the ECC83S, ECC803S, and Tung Sol reissue? I'm trying to steer away from ending up with slight shades of the same thing.

 

[What?]

Lots of reading during and after work on various current production tubes. It seems that the Tung Sol reissue and JJ ECC803S are probably the best bets worth trying and comparing. I was hoping that there would be more, but lots of opinions later I'm convinced that these are the ones worth giving a go. The suggestions are appreciated all the same. I did some reading about each of them.

 

[jeffb]

jeffb, the E83CC sounds like it would be different enough to be worth trying. I don't dislike brighter power tubes, but I have some winged C's that I could try for that. My impression of the E34L's is that they're kind of puffy in the lows. Big in the lows, but probably not the best clarity in the lows.

Agreed on the 34Ls- Bias is key, a little on the cool side and they will clear up a bit on those lows/low mids. If you want bigger lows, plus clarity throughout, then the JJ KT77 is the way to go.

The new JJ Frame grid (83cc) is definitely worth picking up. I'm very impressed with it.

FWIW- how you describe the JJe34L, is how I feel about the Tung Sol ECC83/12ax7: Puffy or bloated. I think it would be better in Fender type amps, than british Marshall/Orange, etc.

 

[What?]

Agreed on the 34Ls- Bias is key, a little on the cool side and they will clear up a bit on those lows/low mids. If you want bigger lows, plus clarity throughout, then the JJ KT77 is the way to go.

The new JJ Frame grid (83cc) is definitely worth picking up. I'm very impressed with it.

FWIW- how you describe the JJe34L, is how I feel about the Tung Sol ECC83/12ax7: Puffy or bloated. I think it would be better in Fender type amps, than british Marshall/Orange, etc.

I read too many mixed things on the E83CC to want to try it. Maybe next round after more reading.

Going on some descriptions I have read, I don't know if I would like the breakup of the KT77's. What is your impression of the EL34II's?

On bias of the E34L's in my DSL50, I didn't notice any significant differences in the frequency spectrum. Over an hour or two I went from about 40mA to 25mA, back and forth, and ended up leaving it at 35mA. I haven't yet changed the bias for the Plexi 51, so I don't know if it would make a difference there yet.

 

[_Steve]

Lots of reading during and after work on various current production tubes. It seems that the Tung Sol reissue and JJ ECC803S are probably the best bets worth trying and comparing. I was hoping that there would be more, but lots of opinions later I'm convinced that these are the ones worth giving a go. The suggestions are appreciated all the same. I did some reading about each of them.

I think this is a good approach. To me the new Tung-Sols are the most 'different' sounding current production tubes. You'll hear the difference and can experiment with different positions.

 

[_Steve]

Going on some descriptions I have read, I don't know if I would like the breakup of the KT77's. What is your impression of the EL34II's?
.

For me they are easily the best current production EL34s. They are definitely NOT just a variation of the other JJ EL34s (like the L). They are warm, detailed and punchy. IMHO just as good as my NOS RFTs.

 

[jeffb]

I read too many mixed things on the E83CC to want to try it. Maybe next round after more reading.

Going on some descriptions I have read, I don't know if I would like the breakup of the KT77's. What is your impression of the EL34II's?

On bias of the E34L's in my DSL50, I didn't notice any significant differences in the frequency spectrum. Over an hour or two I went from about 40mA to 25mA, back and forth, and ended up leaving it at 35mA. I haven't yet changed the bias for the Plexi 51, so I don't know if it would make a difference there yet.

I like both the KT77s and EL34IIs, but they are very different sounds. I think the KT77s break up more nicely than most EL34s as they don't get too saturated or compressed. The Midrange is very sweet. They retain open-ness and detail. They have noticeably more low end than EL34s, as well as clarity. In a DSL, they can be a bit much in the room, but record wonderfully. I've posted my clip a million times around here of my DSL with the KT77s. If they were slightly warmer, they would be my favorite power tube.


The EL34II is warmer than the KT77 and more typical of an EL34 sound. I also agree they sound a bit more like old Iron Curtain tubes than most. They have more detail, less bass and more high end content than the 34L. They have a different midrange- focused lower on the spectrum than the 34L. They just sound like a classic punchy EL34. Again for a DSL they may have too much high end content for some, but in a NMV circuit, I'd say they should be great. I have a set sitting in my ORI20H. Waiting for a better amp to put them in I've used them on and off in my DSL for the past several years.

 

[SteelLucky]

For me they are easily the best current production EL34s. They are definitely NOT just a variation of the other JJ EL34s (like the L). They are warm, detailed and punchy. IMHO just as good as my NOS RFTs.

I did the same power tube test and honestly can not tell the difference in my SC20H with either set in. JJ EL34-II vs NOS RFT EL34. Dam straight I saved the RFT back in the boxes and ordered a second set of EL34-II

 

[What?]

I think I am looking for more overall mids with a top that is more harmonically rich but not glaring. I think what I'm hearing now is something of an overall blanketed cloudiness (lack of clarity) but glaring up top that makes the clipping sound a bit rough and harsh. If I turn up the high and/or presence controls, it just gets more glaring, not richer like I want to hear. Warm and rich with solid mids that aren't honky, not cloudy and icepick.

 

[paul-e-mann]

I'm going to try some different current production preamp tubes in my plexi clone. Which ones are different enough to matter? Current tubes in this amp are:

V1: JJ ECC83S, Ruby 12AX7ACZ HG
V2: TAD 7025/12AX7 High Grade (maybe someone here can help me identify the manufacturer)
V3: JJ ECC83S, Ruby 12AX7ACZ HG
V4/V5: JJ E34L, Apex matching, Current: 28, Transconductance: 7100
Rectifier: JJ GZ34S, TAD 5AR4CZ

I would like to get some more overall clarity and sweetness without getting more icepick. With the treble up, I think the amp tends toward a bit of icepick now. On my list to try are Tung Sol reissue and JJ ECC803S. Is the Sovtek 12AX7LPS very different from the JJ ECC803S?

If i knew nothing about tubes Id buy some made in Russia, China, and Slovakia to compare, they are the only places that make tubes today. Read a bunch of reviews and pick what looks interesting.

 

[CROWEMAG]

I have recently become a Chinese convert. Never thought I would say that. For me.....if you cannot get NOS go Chinese in a Marshall. Especially if you are a traditional metal kind of fella.

 

[paul-e-mann]

I have recently become a Chinese convert. Never thought I would say that. For me.....if you cannot get NOS go Chinese in a Marshall. Especially if you are a traditional metal kind of fella.

I agree, Chinese tubes sound best to me, I have had Shuguang, Ruby, Sino, IE. If youre a Winged C fan a set of Chinese tubes sound just like them in my opinion, very crunchy and articulate, Ruby are the easiest to find.

 

[jeffb]

I think I am looking for more overall mids with a top that is more harmonically rich but not glaring. I think what I'm hearing now is something of an overall blanketed cloudiness (lack of clarity) but glaring up top that makes the clipping sound a bit rough and harsh. If I turn up the high and/or presence controls, it just gets more glaring, not richer like I want to hear. Warm and rich with solid mids that aren't honky, not cloudy and icepick.

You want the EL34IIs.