Def Leppard. How do I get there?

[wylde1]

I was gonna say get your drummer in a car accident.... but that seems.... less helpful than the other things suggested

 

[Blade Guitars]

Hi!
I just love Def Leppard tone so I bought a jmp1 a old fifty fity mesa power amp a legacy with vintage30 and a Tc for chorus, reverb and delay and voilá!! Def Leppard Tone wherever and whenever I want!! I know you have to carry a whole ten space rack but when you plug it worth every stair!!!

 

[Joey Voltage]

Holy Crap! you have opened a can of worms with this one. The easiest answer is give up!, and settle for something similar. you can get a pretty similar sound with what was mentioned, and even when you see live footage like in your face in the round, they can't even reproduce it! The basics are a smoother mid heavy overdrive, slight multi-delays (more than one with different time increments), chorus, and reverb.

I remember being like 15yrs old and almost on the verge of tears because I could never get that clean, smooth howling lead tone phil did on Hysteria, "women" in particular. When I got older I realized how much of it was truly 5-10 layer studio sheen, huge gated everything, super processed, etc...with really good production... Hysteria is almost the definition of over-produced.

IIRC in the studio Phil in particular used Rockman stuff, Randall RG-80 with scorpion speaker, a fuzz pedal Brian may built (probably insignificant), and a truck load of other top of the line SS and digital Rack gear. Live he used a randall Century head, and probably the same crazy amount of rack gear.

I have to believe that Steve also used a lot of this stuff as well, but rumor has it that he also used the same JCM800 setup he had used on previous albums as well. Live it has been said that he wouldn't part with the 800 setup (he often boosted the input with a Morley preamp booster), and you can kinda hear it on In the round in your face. Steve's tone sounds a LOT better than phils does on that video... slightly more organic, but not much.

Vivian Campbell is a Soldano nut, frequently uses them live. He apparently turned Phil on to them as well. One of the newer albums was recorded using Soldano's pretty heavily. I remember reading an article on how he hated all the solid state stuff phil made him play through on tour, and refused to use it mid way through insisting he use his SLO, and I guess phl was impressed by it (SLO)

All this being said, I think now I have to say my altime favorite tone they had was on high & dry... just a good overdriven marshall sound, nothing fancy, but really good.

 

[MartyStrat54]

Wow this is a really old thread. The guy who started it was one of my best forum buddies. Great rundown on PHIL. Yeah, I'm older than you and it was during the making of the Mutt Lange produced High and Dry that Def Leppard went the route of high techno rack gear. When Rick Allen lost his arm in his Corvette accident, the over produced sound went into overdrive. While I say they did a good job with a one-arm drummer, it was a whole different sound than High and Dry. I mean triggered drum sounds are a lot different than a drummer working a snare and a high hat.

I would say you would need at least three digital delays or and RP1000 programed for multiple delay layers. Then a chorus effect and then various programed distortion.

I have already answered on this thread and suggest the RP1000 and possibly a DSL amp.

 

[jcmjmp]

The best leppard tone is on Pyromania. For anything after that, you'll need a wet/dry/wet rig.

 

[MartyStrat54]

Finally, a true purpose for a wet/dry/wet rig. Of course the "wet" is really wet.

 

[joshuaaewallen]

Well... I bit the bullet and bought an RP1000 by Digitech. Depressionary spending isn't generally fiscally wise, but it does offer some sonic thrills. Holy crap this thing does everything! Now I just need to learn how to use all of the stuff it can do, which is in itself a daunting task. But I think Marty is on the right track with the Digitech RP series. Even running it through my Bugera 333 it has some serious potential (despite the fact that I have barely learned how to use it). I can hardly wait to get my Marshall back from Mr Wilder, who is going to be doing some mods on it for me!!! I'll keep ya'll posted and see if in the end we haven't built a better mousetrap. Thanks for all the input guys, and as always, keep on rockin'!!!

 

[wkcchampion]

I saw from soem videos that Def Leppard used the JCM800 2203 and the JMP-1 (with dunno what power amp) later.

 

[cptnkrunch]

Holy Crap! you have opened a can of worms with this one. The easiest answer is give up!, and settle for something similar. you can get a pretty similar sound with what was mentioned, and even when you see live footage like in your face in the round, they can't even reproduce it! The basics are a smoother mid heavy overdrive, slight multi-delays (more than one with different time increments), chorus, and reverb.

I remember being like 15yrs old and almost on the verge of tears because I could never get that clean, smooth howling lead tone phil did on Hysteria, "women" in particular. When I got older I realized how much of it was truly 5-10 layer studio sheen, huge gated everything, super processed, etc...with really good production... Hysteria is almost the definition of over-produced.

IIRC in the studio Phil in particular used Rockman stuff, Randall RG-80 with scorpion speaker, a fuzz pedal Brian may built (probably insignificant), and a truck load of other top of the line SS and digital Rack gear. Live he used a randall Century head, and probably the same crazy amount of rack gear.

I have to believe that Steve also used a lot of this stuff as well, but rumor has it that he also used the same JCM800 setup he had used on previous albums as well. Live it has been said that he wouldn't part with the 800 setup (he often boosted the input with a Morley preamp booster), and you can kinda hear it on In the round in your face. Steve's tone sounds a LOT better than phils does on that video... slightly more organic, but not much.

Vivian Campbell is a Soldano nut, frequently uses them live. He apparently turned Phil on to them as well. One of the newer albums was recorded using Soldano's pretty heavily. I remember reading an article on how he hated all the solid state stuff phil made him play through on tour, and refused to use it mid way through insisting he use his SLO, and I guess phl was impressed by it (SLO)

All this being said, I think now I have to say my altime favorite tone they had was on high & dry... just a good overdriven marshall sound, nothing fancy, but really good

+1 Couldn't have said it any better. We used to play a few DL songs. The early stuff was much easier to play than the Pyro and Hysteria stuff. As mentioned above the studio production of the later stuff was very layered and with many different tones. If you can find a guitar and amp that can produce all these at once you'll have it, otherwise find a happy medium. With some tweaking I think you can find something close that will work for you. A good start may be overdrive, a littlle chorus, a very tight delay and maybe a touch of compression. Good Luck

 

[MartyStrat54]

Josh it ain't gonna happen overnight, but as you get to know that RP1000, you are going to see just what it can do. I mean it will run multiple delays all at different time settings and this is the base of the Def Leppard sound. Then you can experiment with the delay time settings and then add chorus to it and then some tasty distortion and you will be getting there. You got the FX to do it all. I would start with working on your own setting using multiple time delays.

 

[joshuaaewallen]

Josh it ain't gonna happen overnight, but as you get to know that RP1000, you are going to see just what it can do. I mean it will run multiple delays all at different time settings and this is the base of the Def Leppard sound. Then you can experiment with the delay time settings and then add chorus to it and then some tasty distortion and you will be getting there. You got the FX to do it all. I would start with working on your own setting using multiple time delays.

I know you're right Marty. Patience an all that... Hmm... I like that song... Umm, patience regarding finding "that" tone. It's actually been pretty amazing to me how much closer I've gotten just since I've gotten my TSL and started adding some delay into my signal. I can jam along and it definitely close enough for horse shoes & hand grenades... I can say one thing... I don't think I'm likely to ever need another effectsbox again (or at least for a VERY long time)! I'd highly recommend one of these boxes. It's amazing!

Sidenote: Not that it makes a difference, but there is kind of a cool though that Phil for a time played through a Digitech Legend (I actually had one of them for a while, but had to sell it for the $$$). But actually, even though Phil Collen was the "technician" player in the band, I always preferred Steve Clarke's playing more. Anyhoo...

 

[joshuaaewallen]

Sadly, I'm still young enough to still be learning patience, but old enough to know how badly I need it!

 

[joshuaaewallen]

"Behind the Music Remastered: Def Leppard" ( Ep. 036 ) from Behind The Music | Full Episode | VH1.com

 

[MartyStrat54]

I went ahead and watched all that again, even though I have seen it before on TV. I guess what's staggering is that you look at Van Halen. They came out in 77 and they never had the success that Def Leppard did. I mean not by a long ways. If not for Michael Jackson, they would have been the #1 artist of the 80's.

 

[joshuaaewallen]

I went ahead and watched all that again, even though I have seen it before on TV. I guess what's staggering is that you look at Van Halen. They came out in 77 and they never had the success that Def Leppard did. I mean not by a long ways. If not for Michael Jackson, they would have been the #1 artist of the 80's.

Crazy stuff eh? When VanHalen hit the scene, back in '77 (the year I was born... Craziness) and blew everyone away, the boys from Def Leppard were fresh outta the Rock & Roll womb having just gotten together and practicing themselves to death in the spoon factory. A bunch kids no less (literally).

It was the Hysteria album, and Aerosmith's 1973 self titled debut that made me really want to play guitar. When I was in high school my absolute fave's were Def Leppard & Aerosmith. When everyone else was into Nirvana, I was diggin' into the 70's and 80's. I've loved Lep music since "Animal" hit the airwaves, but honestly, I think I like them best because they were my "gate-way drug"... In a nutshell it was by learning about what their musical influences were that introduced me to some of my other favorite bands (Thin Lizzy, Sweet, T-Rex, Mott The Hoople, and David Bowie circa Ziggy Stardust & Hunky Dory, etc...) I've discovered a lot of great music by tracing back the favorites of my favorite band. I'd encourage everyone to look at their favorites and see what made them groove. Ya never know what your gonna find!

Anyhoo, now that I've rambled on for 45 minutes like a nostalgic, rapidly aging 30-something wishing to recapture his youth...

 

[MartyStrat54]

Well I was hard core Aerosmith and would stand in line to get something new from them. I once drove down to OKC to get a copy of "Get Your Wings." I used to sit by the river and listen to Joe Perry and man it was good.

It makes me cry that those days are gone. It's like what that journalist said in the Def Leppard VID. He said, "Twenty years have gone by and the crowd is still expecting 21 year-old's to hit the stage." (And now it's been 30 years.)

80's, 90's, 2000 through 2010-30 years.

 

[joshuaaewallen]

Well I was hard core Aerosmith and would stand in line to get something new from them. I once drove down to OKC to get a copy of "Get Your Wings." I used to sit by the river and listen to Joe Perry and man it was good.

It makes me cry that those days are gone. It's like what that journalist said in the Def Leppard VID. He said, "Twenty years have gone by and the crowd is still expecting 21 year-old's to hit the stage." (And now it's been 30 years.)

80's, 90's, 2000 through 2010-30 years.

I love Get Your Wings. Great album!

 

[captcrunch]

After seeing the original question not answered completely for over a year now, I'll answer it. First, there are some things people need to know about how the album was recorded which reveals why the sound is difficult/impossible to re-create identically. The guitars (all of them) were recorded using modified Scholz Rockman headphone amps. The key thing to note is that they were modified by Tom Scholz at Mutt Lange's request. Mutt loved the guitar sounds on ZZ Tops 'Eliminator' and 'Afterburner' records so he made some calls and found out that Tom modified the distortion and bypassed the compression circuits on Billy Gibbons' Rockman. Mutt sent quite a few to Tom for modification and these were used by DI'ing directly into the SSL console (as an aside, Rick Savage also used them for recording his bass). Phil used metal guitar picks and heavy gauge strings which also impacted the tone and set it apart from Steve Clark's tone. The primary guitar Phil used for his parts was a black Fender strat with a humbucker pickup at the bridge and a Floyd Rose installed. Steve used his Les Pauls. There were no amps or cabinets mic'ed at all for 'Hysteria'.

Some songs require very specific effect techniques to emulate the sound from the record. Take the song 'Hysteria' for example, the song itself is basically a rock ballad played as a waltz. The clean guitar parts at the beginning were played a single note at a time and recorded that way so as to sound like a plucked violin string (pizzicato style). The notes were heavily compressed with the SSL channel comp to remove the attack of the guitar pick and reduce the "bloom" of individual notes. The clean chords that are in the song weren't strummed, they were played note-for-note and recorded that way to create that same pizzicato effect. The timing of the individual notes was critical to maintain the sound of a plucked chord. This is very evident in the chords played right before each line in the second verse "I've gotta know tonight" lyric. Played live in the late 80's, the TC 1210 chorus in loop 5 of the TC 2290 delay was used. Anyway, for cleans use heavy compression with a quick attack and release times, followed by chorus, then delay. Its important to note that delays are always last to spread the stereo sound. In mono, delay b4 chorus will muddy the sound.

The distortion of the 'Hysteria' era is much less distorted than one often thinks. A close listen reveals the heavy use of the SSL channel comps and EQs to smooth the distortion rather than using tube saturation for compression. The time based effects are chorus then delay. A common misconception is that there is reverb on the guitars when it is, in fact, dynamic delay from the TC 2290.

If you really want a glimpse into how the studio sounds were achieved, buy or rent the 'Classic Albums: Hysteria' from Eagle Rock as it has the band members dissecting many of the songs and explaining how things were done.

 

[joshuaaewallen]

Josh it ain't gonna happen overnight, but as you get to know that RP1000, you are going to see just what it can do. I mean it will run multiple delays all at different time settings and this is the base of the Def Leppard sound. Then you can experiment with the delay time settings and then add chorus to it and then some tasty distortion and you will be getting there. You got the FX to do it all. I would start with working on your own setting using multiple time delays.

Getting Closer...

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9n6oNNwPm0I]YouTube - Pour Some Sugar On Me - Def Leppard Cover[/ame]

Just playing along w/ a CD...

DISCLAIMER: I make no pretense about being a good guitar player. I am not. I only play well enough so that one might vaguely recognize the song I am pretending to know how to play. That being said, if you are looking for perfection or to criticize, Go elsewhere, If you enjoy good music, even at the hands of a butcher such as myself, then stick around, rock out, and enjoy!

 

[plexi-paul]

Heres my 2 cents:
there is a lot of good advice on the chorus and delay in previous posts so I will talk about overdrive. I found that tone when I set my amp "clean on the edge of breakup" and run 2 OD pedals in line. I have the gain on both set at about half. I personally like the Bad Monkey with either an OCD or Visual Sound Open Road (just got that last week). I get a very big sound running like that. With 2 OD's, you may loose some of the "natural marshall airy-ness" but you get a thick tone.
Also, using OD's instead of distortion pedals, you can control the gain so you keep the feedback you want, but aren't noisy. My rig is EXTREMELY QUIET, even with 2 OD's.
Those are just the OD's I like. The BM is $50, The OCD is $130, and the OR is $120...I think those prices are right. Give that a try some time.