DSL5c - The Ultimate Lo-Power Amp

[xStonr]

I have both the Blackstar HT5h and the Marshall DSL5c. Buy the Marshall, it is the better sounding amp.

 

[vintage_blabla]

Talking about biasing this amp, I replaced the stock Marshall branded (and not TAD) power tube with a balanced gold pin JJ ECC99. I had to almost crank the bias pot to get it up to 110mV. At the maximum bias pot setting it reads around 130mV. Just a hint for those who might consider this tube.

Another thing is what have been discussed many times but I just cannot express what an improvement to this combo is to replace the stock speaker with a good 12" one! Stock it sounded thin, fizzy, mushy near cr*p I would say. Classic gain was ok but ultra was really bad. I replaced all preamp tubes with Tung-Sols, 12AT7 in the V2 position but still not ok. Cranked the amp through an attenuator gave ok-ish results but still the same fizzyness. After installing a well broken in Rola GT12-65 I was like wow that's a whole different amp and one killer tone! I didn't have time/chance to crank it yet but still on low volume it sounds much much better. I would say that for the first try, 90% of what I hated in this amp is gone.
The speaker swap is a definite must to do on this amp to get a good Marshall tone.

 

[Marshy]

Vintage_blabla:In 5 watt mode, how is the idle white noise or static for you on this amp, with the volume off on the clean channel? can you hear any on the headphones/line in? Did changing the power tube have any effect on this sort of white noise sound/noise floor?

Talking about biasing this amp, I replaced the stock Marshall branded (and not TAD) power tube with a balanced gold pin JJ ECC99. I had to almost crank the bias pot to get it up to 110mV. At the maximum bias pot setting it reads around 130mV. Just a hint for those who might consider this tube.

Another thing is what have been discussed many times but I just cannot express what an improvement to this combo is to replace the stock speaker with a good 12" one! Stock it sounded thin, fizzy, mushy near cr*p I would say. Classic gain was ok but ultra was really bad. I replaced all preamp tubes with Tung-Sols, 12AT7 in the V2 position but still not ok. Cranked the amp through an attenuator gave ok-ish results but still the same fizzyness. After installing a well broken in Rola GT12-65 I was like wow that's a whole different amp and one killer tone! I didn't have time/chance to crank it yet but still on low volume it sounds much much better. I would say that for the first try, 90% of what I hated in this amp is gone.
The speaker swap is a definite must to do on this amp to get a good Marshall tone.

 

[Sailindawg]

@vintage_blabla

Changing out that stock 10" speaker is one of the best mods for this amp. Many thanks to Micky for that experiment. I hooked my amp to a 12" WGS ET65 that's inside a 1x12 cab. The difference is quite amazing. Going to the 1x12 cab, the EQ is now actually quite usable. I'm thinking of replacing the Celestion ten 30 with a WGS Retro 10. A bit more mid rangy than the ET65. I was hoping that I'd get something a bit different in tone than the 12".

 

[vintage_blabla]

Vintage_blabla:In 5 watt mode, how is the idle white noise or static for you on this amp, with the volume off on the clean channel? can you hear any on the headphones/line in? Did changing the power tube have any effect on this sort of white noise sound/noise floor?

I cannot comment how it is over the headphone but through the speaker it's quite apparent unfortunately, I would say that it's even louder than with the stock tube. But I have to check it further and try a line filter tomorrow too. I'll let you know the results.

 

[vintage_blabla]

@vintage_blabla

Changing out that stock 10" speaker is one of the best mods for this amp. Many thanks to Micky for that experiment. I hooked my amp to a 12" WGS ET65 that's inside a 1x12 cab. The difference is quite amazing. Going to the 1x12 cab, the EQ is now actually quite usable. I'm thinking of replacing the Celestion ten 30 with a WGS Retro 10. A bit more mid rangy than the ET65. I was hoping that I'd get something a bit different in tone than the 12".

I'm quite sure that the big difference in tone has more to do with the quality of the stock speaker than its size. I was considering a 10" Greenback first but since there's a possibility to mount a 12", I decided to take full advantage. Good luck with your 10" experiment!

 

[Sailindawg]

Yes, that's what has my interest in replacing the 10" with a more quality speaker. I thought that the tone difference between the ET65 & the retro 10 could provide for a more interesiing practice amp tone wise.

 

[Micky]

Yes, that's what has my interest in replacing the 10" with a more quality speaker. I thought that the tone difference between the ET65 & the retro 10 could provide for a more interesiing practice amp tone wise.

This was the first thing I tried.
I just cannot fall in love with a 10", I had the smooth cone WGS in there for a bit.
It was much better, but still not a 12" quality speaker.
I ended up with a WGS Vet30 in there, as well as some tube rolling.

Now a quad of 10"? That is a different story!

 

[Sailindawg]

@Micky

What particularly did you dislike about the 10" speaker? Was too thin of a tone? Lack of ability to use EQ functions to fullest?

I understand that a 10 will not project like a 12, but I'm just trying to understand the differences, not having had a lot experience with this.

 

[Micky]

@Micky

What particularly did you dislike about the 10" speaker? Was too thin of a tone? Lack of ability to use EQ functions to fullest?

I understand that a 10 will not project like a 12, but I'm just trying to understand the differences, not having had a lot experience with this.

You nailed it right there, it just doesn't project like a 12".
I also found that the mids and deep bass, especially with the volume rolled back on the Classic Channel were a bit different than a 12".
My whole experiment here was to get a 5W/1W DSL combo that was lighter than the DSL40c and sounded similar. Now I know the EQ is much different, and there is no real similarity in the controls, but I think I reached my goal, the combo is now 20 pounds lighter than its big brother.

With some tube rolling and no real drastic mods I have it to a spot where I am comfortable with the tone, even if it is only a 2-channel/2-mode amp. I still get flubby bass with it turned up too much, as well as ice-picky treble if I do the same, but the range of EQ is excellent, the only thing I am really disappointed with is the lack of clean headroom. But then again, I have Fender amps for that, the '77 Princeton Reverb is modified for 12" as well and that is wonderfully sweet with tons of reverb.

10" speakers are fine, I had a bass cab with 8 10's, another Fender with 3 10's, and am currently building a Fender Champ 5F1 clone with a 10" in a tweed cab. The DSL5c is not a perfect, do-it-all amp but it can be a bit better if you have the resources.

 

[Sailindawg]

Thanks for sharing your thoughts!

 

[vintage_blabla]

I was rolling tubes today, V1 remained the same balanced Tung-Sol 12AX7 reissue and V3 the JJ ECC99 gold pin.

First try:
V2: Tung-Sol 12AT7W/6201 reissue
V4: stock Marshall 12AX7 as the PI
This setup gave very transparent lead tones on the ultra gain channel, very smooth highs, really sweet sounding but a bit lacking in string definition with riffs and chords.

Second try:
V2: Tung-Sol 12AT7W/6201 reissue
V4: Tung-Sol 12AX7
Terrible all-stock-tubes-like fizzyness for some reason.

Third try:
V2: Sovtek 5751
V4: Tung-Sol 12AT7W/6201 reissue
This gave me good string definition playing rhythm and most of the transparency of the leads of the first try remained but didn't sound that sweet and that transparent and highs weren't so smooth and round.

So as expected, it seems I have to make a compromise. I tend to lead towards the first setup, the leads just sounded so good! Somehow my materialist brain tries to pull me towards the pricier Tung-Sols rather than using cheapo stock Marshalls but I should rather listen to my ears I guess...

(Still cannot comment on idle and headphones noise, will test that later too.)

 

[vintage_blabla]

Well, I've been rolling tubes and testing the ultra channel for hours today and it seems that the tube that has the most influence on clean headroom and bringing down gain to usable levels is the PI. I've settled with the Sovtek 5751 there (and 12AT7 as V2) and have a very transparent gain channel now and with the gain at 4-6 it's still not in the same territory as stock on 2!

Of course, 5W mode also gives a lot more headroom than 1W mode.

I also installed a choke as I plan to run this cranked through an attenuator. I only found one with a 180ohm DC resistance so it took plate voltage down to 430V but I like the sound this way. Not cranked yet.

Micky: didn't you get more hiss with the choke on low volumes?

 

[Micky]

Micky: didn't you get more hiss with the choke on low volumes?

No. My DSL is dead quiet both thru the headphones as well as thru the speaker.
Except of course on the Ultra Channel with the gain turned up.
Then there is an audible noise floor...

 

[vintage_blabla]

No. My DSL is dead quiet both thru the headphones as well as thru the speaker.
Except of course on the Ultra Channel with the gain turned up.
Then there is an audible noise floor...

Interesting, it seems I get more noise floor than I should. It's not annoyingly loud though. I should try other outlets too because it's said to make wonders.

 

[Micky]

Interesting, it seems I get more noise floor than I should. It's not annoyingly loud though. I should try other outlets too because it's said to make wonders.

Try different preamp tubes...

 

[vintage_blabla]

Try different preamp tubes...

I think I've went through all the ones I have at hand. Which types do you use?

 

[Micky]

I think I've went through all the ones I have at hand. Which types do you use?

I really don't feel comfortable anymore bragging about the preamp tubes I use.
Let's just say I have some expensive NOS tubes from the 50's & 60's.

 

[riefil]

I've read all pages. Maybe I missed it, but which tube is which location? ie V1, V2, V3, V4. How about a left to right for knuckleheads like myself

 

[Ozark]

I have both the Blackstar HT5h and the Marshall DSL5c. Buy the Marshall, it is the better sounding amp.

Hi xStonr, yes you are right, the DSL5C is better sounding. I finally bought my DSL5C and am very happy with it.

Have to thank Micky too for his info on this lovely amp.

I have both the Blackstar HT5h and the Marshall DSL5c. Buy the Marshall, it is the better sounding amp.