El34 and 6550 comparison-greenbacks and g12-65's comparison

[rockstah]

Are you using the same formula as the the el34's to bias the 6550's?
BTW, I thought the 6550's ripped ! Great playing too!

thanks dread1! yes again in what i said was that they should be treated like el34's this means exactly what the words say. same formula.

Mark

 

[Username2]

Assuming no post production in those clips the 6550's (greenbacks) had the best articulation and rock voice of the the lot. I say this not so much for the solo sound but how that tone would sound placed in the mix.

Sometimes the best solo sound with a amp does not equate into the best sound when placed in the mix with another guitar drums and bass.

 

[rockstah]

Assuming no post production in those clips the 6550's (greenbacks) had the best articulation and rock voice of the the lot. I say this not so much for the solo sound but how that tone would sound placed in the mix.

Sometimes the best solo sound with a amp does not equate into the best sound when placed in the mix with another guitar drums and bass.

its interesting how the 6550 has a wider freq response than the "smeared" el34 - that being said i do prefer, at this point anyway, el34's.

 

[demonufo]

Yes, you can split hairs but the comparison is dead nuts as far as i'm concerned.

On the point of reverb they both had reverb!?!

On the point of how they are mic'd they both are mic'd to get the sound i get in the room. its how I record any clip, to capture the sound i hear in the room.

The 6550's were bias'd as they should be. Granted, you are thinking about a 6550 being a 35w tube and a el34 being a 25w tube but the pt AND the OT would have to be changed to handle the 6550's true wattage something that Marshall never did using the same pt and ot for both tubes.

Further more, 6550's in a Marshall amp SHOULD be treated like el34's unless you want to risk OT and or PT failure.

About the open back versus closed back it really makes no difference in this situation with the volume being used. the mic is only capturing the speaker sound.

For me, in my opinion, and what i look for as far as tone goes, voice goes, the g12-65's sound horrible but tone is in the hears of the beholder.

I appreciate the post and your opinion!

Mark

S'fair enough. Strange that I've never noted such a massive and notable difference when switching between greenies and 65's before. I concur that if that is close to the room sound, then quite frankly your 65's do sound terrible in comparison. There's just so much missing from that sound to be useable.
Who'd have thought the greenies would've had that much more bottom and balls to them.

As for the open & closed back debate, I wasn't trying to claim that it would have a bearing on things so much as G12M-65's don't work as well in open-backed cabs as greenbacks do (or at least, the greenbacks in my old 2104 worked beautifully, but when I tried G12M-65's in my 4104 they didn't sound great. Both worked really well in a 4X12 however.)

My comment towards the reverb is mainly that I can't stand the stuff, I feel it just gets in the way, like for like comparison or not. I appreciate that it's a major part of what you try to achieve though.

And my GE's being a 42W tube, there's no way I'd try to bias them at 70% in a Marshall. . But treating them as an EL34 leaves them too cold, horribly so in fact, especially in comparison to modern 6550's. Giving them a little more current isn't exactly risking meltdown, but that is an area that needs treading very carefully, and not one I'd recommend without caution.

Just out of interest, what 6550's were you using?

 

[rockstah]

S'fair enough. Strange that I've never noted such a massive and notable difference when switching between greenies and 65's before. I concur that if that is close to the room sound, then quite frankly your 65's do sound terrible in comparison. There's just so much missing from that sound to be useable.
Who'd have thought the greenies would've had that much more bottom and balls to them.

As for the open & closed back debate, I wasn't trying to claim that it would have a bearing on things so much as G12M-65's don't work as well in open-backed cabs as greenbacks do (or at least, the greenbacks in my old 2104 worked beautifully, but when I tried G12M-65's in my 4104 they didn't sound great. Both worked really well in a 4X12 however.)

My comment towards the reverb is mainly that I can't stand the stuff, I feel it just gets in the way, like for like comparison or not. I appreciate that it's a major part of what you try to achieve though.

And my GE's being a 42W tube, there's no way I'd try to bias them at 70% in a Marshall. . But treating them as an EL34 leaves them too cold, horribly so in fact, especially in comparison to modern 6550's. Giving them a little more current isn't exactly risking meltdown, but that is an area that needs treading very carefully, and not one I'd recommend without caution.

Just out of interest, what 6550's were you using?

i hear ya and agree. Tread lightly past 70% indeed. but again i'm treating them as el34's so its still 70% of 25w. i agree that's way low for the 6550's (35w tube) but a gain any higher and you are putting stress on the OT and PT as well.
Tung-sol's
i appreciate the post,
Mark

 

[dukeamps]

You need a bit more reverb on them clips lol

your clips sound great man, i think all this shows is your mod is voiced for your greenback speakers, i think if you had started out with the g12-65 speakers for your mod5, then you would have had the same problem with the greenbacks.

Cheers

Nigel

 

[boola]

To me it didn't sound like the 65s were being driven hard enough. I have a 4x12 fitted with 65s and a 4x12 with pre-rola 25s and both are excellent in different ways. The 65s shouldn't sound lifeless like that.

 

[demonufo]

Very good point. You attenuating, Mark???

 

[dread1]

Are those new production 65's?