EMG's on a LP Custom?

[zslane]

There are a ton of passive pups out there that are just as hot as EMG's that sounds as good or better..going to lose som eof that huge LP tone with EMG's as well...I also appreciate the incorporation of a good passive pup and well balanced construction of a guitar to get good tone...

I would love to hear someone, anyone, explain to me how EMGs cause the loss of a Les Paul's "huge tone"? First of all, what is meant by "huge tone", and how do the differences between passive and active pickups affect it? The idea that passive pickups produce better tone, or make it easier to bring out the inherently good tone of a guitar, is an intriguing one, but one that probably isn't easy to explain scientifically.

 

[jackassrock]

It has been my experience (and I do have over 30 years experience as a musician, and a sound engineer) that tone is subjective, and EMGs are VERY relevant in the tone spectrum. I've seen guys use them and get great tones. I've seen others use everything else and sound real shitty. And, of course the EMGs can sound bad too in the wrong hands. If you are playing very aggressive music they are a godsend. I have LP standard with them installed and I wouldn't use anything different for my original band, but realize too that they aren't appropriate for my cover gig. Let me say too that I tried many different styles of guitar with many different pickup combos before I came to this conclusion. It just works for me. Passive pickups tend to get too muddy when they're over wound to produce that much output. Man, I tried the X2Ns one time and they sounded awful IMO.

It all comes down to what kind of music you are playing. If it's real heavy I say go for the EMGs. They give a 2203 such gigantic balls. If you're doing something with more dynamic range I'd go with something else. Better yet, keep the one you have stock, and get another Les Paul and load it up with a set of 81s. You won't regret it.

As for the dude that claims a Duncan JB is nearly the same... You outta your mind man. I've used those and never liked 'em at all. They always made everything I put one in sound thin and stratty, which makes sense as they were designed for a strat. The SH-1 ('59 PAF) is a real good Duncan, as is the Custom. I also dig the Gibson '57 plus and the T-Top.

If you can't play, and you're hiding sub par chops behind a wall of too much gain nothing at all is ever going to sound good anyway. So active vs. passive is an irrelevant argument. I'm not saying this is the case with any of you guys, having never heard or seen you play, but I believe that is what makes most guys sound like white noise playing along with the bass. Well, that and Line 6. There's a difference between the two, and no, you don't want an active pickup sound for playing Zeppelin or Hendrix tunes, but on the other hand, you don't want a passive tone if you're playing Slayer or Zakk Wylde either.

 

[scat7s]

If you can't play, and you're hiding sub par chops behind a wall of too much gain nothing at all is ever going to sound good anyway. So active vs. passive is an irrelevant argument. I'm not saying this is the case with any of you guys, having never heard or seen you play, but I believe that is what makes most guys sound like white noise playing along with the bass. Well, that and Line 6. There's a difference between the two, and no, you don't want an active pickup sound for playing Zeppelin or Hendrix tunes, but on the other hand, you don't want a passive tone if you're playing Slayer or Zakk Wylde either.

of course skill level comes into the equation, but actually i was specifically thinking of a guy i know, he's a pretty amazing player, and has more top of the line gear than ive ever known. but in my opinion, he (and others ive heard/seen) would benefit from cleaning up his tone a bit. he could play thru a sparkling clean fender and absolutely shred. he chooses not to, it just seems a shame to have such talent, and nobody can hear it or decipher it 'in a room' so to speak. and by the way, he's no dummy either, he knows his gear and has pretty good ears, i just think he's never had the opportunity to hear what he REALLY sounds like in an environment like that, standing back in room and hearing what it sounds like 30 or 40' away. not many of us have that opportunity, unless you can set up some sort of half decent recording device with a couple ambient room mics. so you just 'go for it' or trust someone elses ears to say, 'yep thats good'...its a gamble, but you can improve your odds by playing a bit cleaner.

 

[jackassrock]

True, I use the EMGs with a 2203 and keep the gain at about 6 or 7. I just really like the way it drives the amp hard. They sound full, and the attack is freakin' killer. The 800 isn't a real high gain amp though, either.

The other guitarist in my band uses a strat with a TSL212, and his tone is all about the fizzy, high gainy, disappear in the mixy thing. It's not how hot his pups are, but he uses that lead channel and I can't get into the sound he's getting at all.

 

[Cobra]

The Blackouts Modular Preamp

I haven't tried it yet, and since I havn't "grown up" (yes a little pun intended ) I still use EMGs and Blackouts, and If you look a guitarist like Steve Lukather or David Gilmour, whom also uses EMG, I would say they are both dynamic, so maybe it is not the PU.

 

[johnemac]

Easy answer for me. No.

Get a deal on a nice used Epi LP and drop some EMG's in it. Then use that guitar when the song and amp settings suites it.

I've been wanting to have a LP with EMG's. I just won't put them in either of my
'79 Gibsons. So, I've been toying with the thought of getting an Epi custom and having EMG's in it.

I was looking at a Zakk Wylde southern flag Epi Custom with active ZW EMG's in it on Ebay a couple months ago. It had the beer caps and everything.

 

[scat7s]

i believe gilmour uses emg's b/c he runs so much auxillary gear. to protect from signal loss, thats what ive heard anyway.

and, (again, just my opinion), gilmour was at his creative and dynamic peak in the 70s, this new stuff he's put out sounds like gilmour and a couple guns for hire songwriters wrote a bunch of mediocre songs and produced the sh*t out of it. theres no soul in it to me. im sure alot of you will disagree, but i think he's a shell of his former playing self. the fact he gets away with calling it pink floyd is shameful.

is it the pu's? probably not, but his best stuff was the old stuff, b4 the emgs.
and his tone HAS indeed suffered as well i think, not that hes got bad tone, but doesnt have any 'magic' to it. mediocre.

remember the guitar solo in 'money'?....pure tone gold.

 

[scat7s]

isnt music and tonality wonderful? so many tones, so many opinions. good discussion, it would be boring if everyone agreed all the time wouldnt it?

i guess what stuck in my head from the OP's question was 'organic', to me, emg's or active pu's are less organic by nature and design. alnicos and wire, thats organic.

and the 'aliveness' he also mentioned,....in the fingers my freinds.

 

[chuckharmonjr]

Never used active pups...not sure if I ever would. I respect the opinions of those that do...Zakk Wylde has made a damned good living using them...I guess I'll just stick to 490/498's...lol...thats what I know and love.

 

[Cobra]

i believe gilmour uses emg's b/c he runs so much auxillary gear. to protect from signal loss, thats what ive heard anyway.

and, (again, just my opinion), gilmour was at his creative and dynamic peak in the 70s, this new stuff he's put out sounds like gilmour and a couple guns for hire songwriters wrote a bunch of mediocre songs and produced the sh*t out of it. theres no soul in it to me. im sure alot of you will disagree, but i think he's a shell of his former playing self. the fact he gets away with calling it pink floyd is shameful.

is it the pu's? probably not, but his best stuff was the old stuff, b4 the emgs.
and his tone HAS indeed suffered as well i think, not that hes got bad tone, but doesnt have any 'magic' to it. mediocre.

remember the guitar solo in 'money'?....pure tone gold.

Pink Floyds creativity kinda died after "The Wall", cause they went mainstream.. But do you expect a 64 yo former acid head to come up with innovativ songs? I mean.. look at Rolling Stones.. They have never written a song with soul and feeling, they're famous because they are still alive..

But back on topic: EMGs on a Custom LP.. Of course you can.. EMGs are (against the EMG tone killing myht) affected by what guitar they are palced in.. EMGs are the best choice when you have a piece of plywood and a some strings, but they truly live up and become great when there in a a LP fx.. If you ever tried sitting down with a Gibson ZW signature, you will notice it has a ton of potential, especially if you switch the 85 to a 60 (that works miracles). Zakk (despite being a big fan of him) is kinda stuck with his sound, playing style and technique, he hasn't been very innovativ the last 10 years at least. So do yourself a favor and try the EMG 60 on a good Epi or Gibson LP-

 

[AJDrac]

Whatever you think will make you happy is worth it - the worst that could happen if you like EMGs is you take them back out and put them in something else where you like them better. That said, after playing several EMG 81/85 (no 18V or other combinations, though) equipped guitars, I chose Duncan's Blackouts over them. They sound a little more "organic" to me, and seem more full as well. Very, very happy with them in my RG.

Also, there is no reason active pups can't sound "organic." They do the exact same thing as passives - just picking up less signal to begin with, then amplifying it. They are still affected by wood tone, string choice, etc all the same. They do have a different sound - as do any two pickups, passive or active (obviously excluding clones), and it is true they generally sound a certain way, but that is because until recently they have almost all been the same pickups - EMG 81/85/60 in some combination. Of course they would sound similar. I think Blackouts sound a decent bit different, although along the same veins as they are based on the EMGs to some extent (that I don't know on the technical side - I let my ears do that research for me).

Good luck with whatever you go with, but I say go for it if you're wanting it - you can always undo it!

 

[jackassrock]

True that. A good sounding guitar is going to sound good. Put any decent pickup in it that you want to, and it will change the tone a bit, but the fact remains. A nice LP custom is gonna be a great foundation for a rock and roll sound. Depending on the style you're gonna play. If you want modern, kickass, in your face tone, go active. If you want smooth, creamy, or rounded tone then don't.

 

[blues_n_cues]

True that. A good sounding guitar is going to sound good. Put any decent pickup in it that you want to, and it will change the tone a bit, but the fact remains. A nice LP custom is gonna be a great foundation for a rock and roll sound. Depending on the style you're gonna play. If you want modern, kickass, in your face tone, go active. If you want smooth, creamy, or rounded tone then don't.

i've put a lot of different actives-including 1st gen emg 81 & 85's into great solid wood guitars & while it souded good for cleans- the roll on & off wasn't there & it sounded exactly like what it was- battery powered transistorized electronic crap.
now go buy a gold top LP w/ p-90's through a plexi & tell me yer gonna get this..
crappy emg sample-i did the intro & exit volume swells w/ an emg 85 on a strat-the middle solo was a stock '76 gibson artisan & jcm800 semi clean...the rythym was a strat w/ emg85. this was 1987btw..
knob lick playboys | Glasgow, KY | Rock / blues / southern | Music, Lyrics, Songs, and Videos | ReverbNation


you can tell the tone...


just sayin...

 

[jackassrock]

It seems to me that not a single sound on that track "Candy Cotton" could be considered "good". The whole mix is devoid of any balls, and is drenched in cheap reverb. Not a very good example IMO as it sounds like it was done on a 4 track cassette. Hissy, noisy, and rife with 80s production values on a shoestring budget. Also, I don't think I've gotten a sound I really liked out of a humbucker equipped strat. And believe me, I've tried. And to be fair, this thread is about EMGs in a Les Paul. TOTALLY different than a strat.

 

[blues_n_cues]

It seems to me that not a single sound on that track "Candy Cotton" could be considered "good". The whole mix is devoid of any balls, and is drenched in cheap reverb. Not a very good example IMO as it sounds like it was done on a 4 track cassette. Hissy, noisy, and rife with 80s production values on a shoestring budget. Also, I don't think I've gotten a sound I really liked out of a humbucker equipped strat. And believe me, I've tried. And to be fair, this thread is about EMGs in a Les Paul. TOTALLY different than a strat.

that was the only surviving cassette copy i had i plugged into the comp & that song if you read the post was a lespaul artisan through a jcm800 2204.
maybe i wasn't clear- i was talking about pirate's fate not candy cotton.
it was just to compare tones.

these songs were recorded in 1987 so....
i do have the 2" masters & the 1/2" tape coming in march so i can revisit & redo these songs. i was 18 then...

 

[jackassrock]

I feel like I should take the time here to say that I'm not ripping on your songs. And you didn't specify which track you were talking about.

What I am saying is that a 20+ year old cassette with 80s production recorded by a teenager might not be the best example of tone. Right from the beginning of "Pirate's Fate" the tape hiss is almost unbearable, and I agree that the guitar sounds are pretty weak, but isn't it worth considering that it's not solely the fault of the pickup you used at the time.

I've got a shit ton of guitars and have tried so many different guitar and pickup combos that it would make your head spin. I will admit freely that EMG + LP isn't even a versatile setup. Shit, for clean tones I wouldn't even use a LP at all if there's a strat or tele handy. I'm saying that given a certain type of music those pickups really shine. They are a one trick pony, just like the 2203, but that trick is pretty fucking fine.