EQ pedal - why does everyone say to put it in the effects loop?

[PaulHikeS2]

Does that mean an EQ pedal doesn't work as well out front? And should I not use one with my amps that don't have a loop?

By the same token, why shouldn't I put an OD/Distortion pedal in the effects loop? Why is that considered inferior?

 

[PelliX]

Not *everyone*. Plenty of great guitarists never even used a loop because they started out without such a notion.

Does that mean an EQ pedal doesn't work as well out front?

Sure it might, depends on how you want the transfer from the preamp to the power stage. If you want EQ'ing between those, the out front won't help. If you think about how it affects the preamp to have an EQ in front, maybe that helps? Neither is right or wrong, though.

And should I not use one with my amps that don't have a loop?

Does it sound right? Then use it!

By the same token, why shouldn't I put an OD/Distortion pedal in the effects loop?

Well, assuming that we all like 'valve saturation' over solid state distortion/OD then you'll get a more 'rounded valve' sound if you put dirty signal through valves instead of 'valve signal' through a SS circuit and on to the power stage. The power stage on many amps is rather transparent and diode clipping might sound very harsh, for example.

Why is that considered inferior?

Well, see above.

 

[tallcoolone]

I read on forums about plenty of people doing this and having great results. I’ve tried it myself several times and was not a fan.

 

[fitz]

Does that mean an EQ pedal doesn't work as well out front? And should I not use one with my amps that don't have a loop?

I have a few different EQ pedals, and I've tried more than one on just about every amp I have.
They usually seem to be more effective in favorably shaping the tone when they are in the loop, if the amp has a loop - vs. out front.
If your amp has no loop, you don't have much of a choice, short of a re-amper with a loop.
I don't use an EQ at all on some of my amps, because they sound just fine to me with the available controls.

By the same token, why shouldn't I put an OD/Distortion pedal in the effects loop? Why is that considered inferior?

Probably some science I don't understand, but the standard signal chain of (guitar > tone effects > preamp > time effects > power amp) seems to work for some reason.
Nothing stopping you from trying other options - If you like it, rock it.
Sometimes a little EQ boost works in the loop to push the power section, but it sounded like $#!+ when I've tried OD in the loop.

 

[junk notes]

By the same token, why shouldn't I put an OD/Distortion pedal in the effects loop? Why is that considered inferior?

Having a distortion in the effects loop would sound the equivalent of the wifey screaming in your ear; a bombardment of inferiorities and other nonsensicals, otherwise refer to p16 Sec.2 in the builders manual for the precise technical explanation.

This past Fall a MF member had suggested using an EQ in the loop. I tried it and liked the results. Here was the posted video.

Does that mean an EQ pedal doesn't work as well out front? And should I not use one with my amps that don't have a loop?

well.. I did try this

 

[Bull Rock]

I think eq in the loop is very good at extra tone shaping. Taking some frequencies up or down a bit if you want to tweak your tone more. It's also a champ at being used as a solo/volume boost or the reverse. That being said I tend to run direct guitar cord amp input and maybe a delay and boost in the loop. I like the less is more approach. Ymmv.

 

[V-man]

What I have picked up:

The EQ in the loop shapes the properties of the AMPLIFIER;

The EQ in front changes the properties of the SIGNAL.

Before the FX you are tweaking the properties of the pickups, After the FX you are shaping the properties of the whole signal.

The most DRAMATIC shift is probably in the loop and we are attracted to large differences over subtle ones. I have old-school circuits with no loops. The EQ nevertheless does much to sculpt a certain drive or cut certain frequencies. Go check out some videos and you can see for yourself.

 

[Matthews Guitars]

EQ as the last tone shaper before the power amp can have a dramatic effect on your overall tone. When you look at the Bradshaw rack based rigs of all the big name guitarists of the 80s, you'll always see one or two or even three graphic EQs, usually 31 banders, in the rack, and the reason for them is that each of them is used to shape their distinctive tones in ways that no other effect in the signal chain can do.

I use a 31 bander in the loop religiously, in my case I use a digital Alesis DEQ-230 programmable EQ with 30 user programmable curves, and changing just a few slider values completely changes the tone.

Take this video as a sampler of what an EQ can do. A 31 bander is capable of much more precise tonal tweaks than one that has only five, seven, or eleven bands. You really can't understand how much your tone can be improved by adding some EQ until you actually try it.

 

[paul-e-mann]

I use an eq pedal in the loop for a volume boost and out front to add more gain.

 

[playloud]

How technical of an explanation do you want?

The key point is that if you want the EQ to impact the signal most directly*, you want it as late in the signal chain as possible. Ideally, you'd have an EQ after the speaker - which is basically the idea behind using EQ on the recorded signal when mixing.

Now if you had a perfectly linear system with infinite headroom, it wouldn't matter where you placed the EQ, but nothing in a guitar amp setup - from the preamp, to the phase inverter, to the power section, to the speakers - has these properties. The preamp is the least "ideal" part of the system in this regard, so putting your EQ in the FX loop is a reasonable compromise.

As @PelliX points out, however: if it sounds good, it is good. Plenty of people have got excellent results from using an EQ in front of an amp (or even by simply - perish the thought! - using the amp's tone controls).

Edit: I would also point out that one of the most coveted studio EQs, the Pultec EQP-1A, is also extremely non-ideal in terms of "doing what it says on the front panel"!

* Meaning dialing in a low pass filter at 3khz, or whatever, on the EQ pedal actually does this to the corresponding output signal.

 

[solarburn]

I'm rebellious. I tried both in front and loop. Found it useful in both places. So I'd use the one in front whenever I wanted in its chain. Leave one on in loop and have a 3rd in loop for lead boost tone. Never leave it to the sound man for solos.lol

Worked great. Ain't no thing to tap a pedal or two. I did this gigging.

 

[Matthews Guitars]

An EQ pre-distortion is very useful, too. I like to set up a big mid boost before distortion when I want to get a highly saturated lead tone that accentuates harmonics and pick scrape. There's a lot you can do with EQ both pre and post -distortion.

 

[PaulHikeS2]

Thanks to everyone for the input. Seems it has a more direct effect in the loop, but putting it in front can have a different but not necessarily worse effect.

I basically have 3 amps that I play and I've simplified to a compact rechargeable board that lives under the coffee table - one lead in, one lead out so it hits only the front of whichever I'm playing.



My Marshall DSL1HR is the only amp with a loop, and my 7 band EQ enhances things nicely there. Trying to figure out if I should setup an EQ/time/modulation that lives with the DSL1 loop (left right next to the amp - no wires to my playing position), or pull out the EQ and shoehorn it into my compact board so I can use it on all 3 amps.

 

[fitz]

Trying to figure out if I should setup an EQ/time/modulation that lives with the DSL1 loop ..., or ... shoehorn it into my compact board so I can use it on all 3 amps.

Yes.
EQ/TBE/MOD in the DSL1 loop & 2nd EQ for the out front compact board = figured out.

 

[PaulHikeS2]

Yes.
EQ/TBE/MOD in the DSL1 loop & 2nd EQ for the out front compact board = figured out.

Yeah - exactly this. Only have space for one mod pedal on the compact. Stacked delays/chorus/EQ in the loop - maybe a flanger too or experiment with some dirt in the loop. The Marshall will be the "fun" amp.

 

[mickeydg5]

I am a fan of experimenting. Use what you have in the most appropriate way.
With my rig, I always had two or three EQ's incorporated.

 

[tallcoolone]

. Never leave it to the sound man for solos.lol

Ugh amen to that. Played a dive bar last night and the “sound guy” had the shittiest gear and could barely set a level where he wasn’t getting screamed at by every drunk in the bar. Dude still insists on cranking me up at his fav parts of whatever song we would be playing. It was horrifying. Not good loud. Bad ugly blown behringer speaker loud.

 

[MonstersOfTheMidway]

If using an EQ anywhere in the signal chain helps, then go for it.
I don't currently use an EQ device, but when I did I always got the best/most effetive results putting it in the effects loop. Believe me, if putting an EQ between the guitar and amp input, too, helped, I would have done that. There's no right or wrong way, just a way that gives you the best results.

Do what gives you the best results.

 

[Jethro Rocker]

Before the advent of this forum and wide spread internet information (such as it is) I wanted to boost the VOLUME and tone shape my 1987 Jubilee.
Music store dude said Use an EQ,
General concensus at the time was that only time based devices went it the loop.
Well.
No experiementing here, nope. Tried an EQ out front and it just muddied things up more.
Never tried in the loop.
In fact, I gave up, traded the Jubilee for a TSL. Fortunately bought it back a couple years later.

So I stupidly traded a somewhat collectible original 1987 Jubilee I bought new because I didn't have the brains to simply try the EQ in loop.
They are cleaner and more effective in loop and make an outstanding solo boost.
But try it all ways first!!

 

[RCM 800]

Depends on what your after. Most of my amps are pretty low gain and I use an EQ and OD's (separately and stacked sometimes) to slam the front.