Feb 19 Edit Just in 4x12 1960 with JMP (Speakers choice for 2x12 cab)

[takeitslow]

Hi to all,

I've been reading the threads on the forum for the last 2 months, from France, gathering infos about Marshall amps without creating an account.
But tonite, I did it finally just because I should get my new amp pretty soon: after having owned some Fenders, and still owning a Bassman and a Princeton, I made up my mind over a 1980 JMP MV 2203.
My Fenders are loaded with Webers 12F150 and Eminence GASC64 but as I'm new to Marshalls, I really don't know what to get...

I've read threads here, I looked at vids on youtube - especially those from Sweden (with Mr Segeborn) that I've found really cool- and I've narrowed it down, somehow, to three or four speakers.
From all I've heard on the net, I didn't like that much the creambacks or the Scumback though it may be the demos...

I'm left with the Heritage G12M20 that I find really great (and maybe pricey) and the Vintage 30 that seems to be rather great too... But there's also the G12H30 or the Hellatone 60 that seems nice...

I guess I'll be building my own 2x12 closed cab with birch plywood in some bluesbreaker style and size (about 29.5"x23"x11") and I'll do the series wiring (2x8ohms=16)...

I have a Strat, a tele, a LP...
I play clean - but I have the Bassman and the Princeton for that already- and I like the sound of Mr Clapton - Young - Bonamassa - Moore - Slash too ...

Should I go with two of the same? Let's say two G12M20...
Should I mix them? Let's say G12M20+Hellatone60...
How could they sound in that 2x12 cab if by pair or mixed?

Help me pick some speakers for my future new cab please (and I could even post pictures of it while in the building process, in case you're interested...)

Or maybe any other speaker suggestions (G12T75???) I should look at?

Thanks in advance.

 

[MarshallDog]

Welcome to the Forum new MF’r!

What was it about the Celestion G12M-65 Creambacks that you did not like? I have a 1980 and a 1979 JMP 2204 and I have the cabs loaded with these Creambacks and it sounds awesome and I like the same Guitarists that you do? Maybe it was the recording, the amp, amp settings, guitar and or tube choices. I also run this Creamback in all of the combos in my signature and love them and I have tried many others over the years, just my two cents!

 

[Sustainium]

Looking forward to the cabinet build.

 

[takeitslow]

Thanks for your replies!

Sustainium, I will send pics of the building for sure as soon as I start, though I'll have to wait for the amp to arrive safe

MarshallDog, as far as the Creambacks are concerned, it's in that vid below that I've found them having more bass, more lows, than the Greenbacks


And in that vid just as if it lacks some...


That's why I went more for the Greenbacks...

 

[SkyMonkey]

I believe the JMP 2203 is a 100W amp.
The highest rated Greenbacks (Heritage Series) are 30W.
2x30W=60W. That could be a problem!

The general consensus is that speaker capacity 2x that of the amp is bombproof, but 1.5x will most likely be all you would need.
2x65W would be as low as I would personally go.

Marshall equip their 2x12 cabs with the G12T-75 as standard (1936 cab), with a capacity of 150W.
They might be a good, and fairly cheap starting point.
The V-Type 70W could be a good choice. Relatively cheap, like a less middy V30.

You could go a bit further with the G12K-100, or the G12H-150 Redback.
If you play clean, the higher rated speakers would reduce the possibility of speaker distortion at high volumes.

Be aware that wiring speakers in series can cause problems if one speaker fails and causes an open circuit (no load!).

 

[lp1987x]

A 100 watt Marshall will put out over 100 watts, especially if you play it loud. For a 2X12, you would need speakers that at a minimum add up to 100 watts power handling, and that would be risking blowing the speakers. The only speakers you mention that can handle that much power are the V30, which are 60 watts each, and the Hellatone, which is a broken-in V30. The G12M Heritage and Greenback would be destroyed by that 2203 unless you have at least four of them.

While I do like the V30, many people think of them as a more modern sounding speaker with a spike in the upper mids. I also like the G12H30, which is a much more balanced speaker. Since it is only 30 watts, you would need to go with the high-powered equivalent, which is the Creamback 75. The H-magnet speakers are all very loud, measuring 4-6 db louder on my db meter than the M-magnet speakers. This means you won't be able to run your amp as loud if using them.

The speakers I'm currently using in my 2X12 are the Creamback 65's, which are the high-powered equivalent to the G12M25 Greenback. The Creambacks sound great with all of my amps and, being an M-magnet speaker, I can turn my amps up a bit louder to get some power amp distortion.

Here's a great comparison between the V30 and the Creamback 65 that convinced me to try the Creambacks.

 

[Sustainium]

Here's a great comparison between the V30 and the Creamback 65 that convinced me to try the Creambacks.

I liked the mix of both speakers the best in that demo anyway.

 

[lp1987x]

I liked the mix of both speakers the best in that demo anyway.

It does sound good there. Perhaps that would be your best course of action, especially if you're undecided. Get a V30 and a Creamback. I would probably suggest a Creamback 75 in that case though. The V30 has a spike in the upper mids and the G12H30/Creamback 75 have slightly reduced mids. They would then cover all areas of the tonal spectrum. Plus, they're both H-magnet speakers so the volume levels would be much closer.

 

[Chrome]

I second that on the Creambacks, I have a creamback in my DSL 40 Combo and it sounds fantastic.

 

[EndGame00]

As everyone stated, a 2203 is 100 watts and a pair of greenies will not work being 25-watters each... Try a pair of Celestion Classic Lead 80, or a pair of G12H75 Creamback ...

 

[Filipe Soares]

Regardless of the speakers, buy a good attenuator. if you are going JMP that would make a great difference to your tone, ears and social life with your neighbors. Take a look at the webers.

 

[paul-e-mann]

Hi to all,

I've been reading the threads on the forum for the last 2 months, from France, gathering infos about Marshall amps without creating an account.
But tonite, I did it finally just because I should get my new amp pretty soon: after having owned some Fenders, and still owning a Bassman and a Princeton, I made up my mind over a 1980 JMP MV 2203.
My Fenders are loaded with Webers 12F150 and Eminence GASC64 but as I'm new to Marshalls, I really don't know what to get...

I've read threads here, I looked at vids on youtube - especially those from Sweden (with Mr Segeborn) that I've found really cool- and I've narrowed it down, somehow, to three or four speakers.
From all I've heard on the net, I didn't like that much the creambacks or the Scumback though it may be the demos...

I'm left with the Heritage G12M20 that I find really great (and maybe pricey) and the Vintage 30 that seems to be rather great too... But there's also the G12H30 or the Hellatone 60 that seems nice...

I guess I'll be building my own 2x12 closed cab with birch plywood in some bluesbreaker style and size (about 29.5"x23"x11") and I'll do the series wiring (2x8ohms=16)...

I have a Strat, a tele, a LP...
I play clean - but I have the Bassman and the Princeton for that already- and I like the sound of Mr Clapton - Young - Bonamassa - Moore - Slash too ...

Should I go with two of the same? Let's say two G12M20...
Should I mix them? Let's say G12M20+Hellatone60...
How could they sound in that 2x12 cab if by pair or mixed?

Help me pick some speakers for my future new cab please (and I could even post pictures of it while in the building process, in case you're interested...)

Or maybe any other speaker suggestions (G12T75???) I should look at?

Thanks in advance.

I like G12T75's with my 2204, whats good about them is you could probably find a 1936 or 1960 cab at most music stores and try them yourself, no guess work just go and try them and see if you like them.

 

[takeitslow]

SkyMonkey, lp1987x, Chrome, EndGame00 and Filipe Soares: Thanks for your replies!!! I think that I've known before this wattage thing (when I bought my Bassman's Webers about 8 years ago) but I just forgot along the way... Thanks for the failing memory. You're saving my money and Greenbacks at the same time

SkyMonkey thanks also for the wiring tip. In fact, my Bassman is wired that way and in 10 years nothing bad happened. But I'll take care of that and for the bassman too...

lp1987x that video is really great too cause it's really not the way I heard them before. So, unless I go with a 4x12 Greenbacks, I think that it could be great having them... Two M65 or a mix of M65+Hellatone60 (though I will also listen to your advice on H75...)

So thanks again !!!

Edit: pedecamp you just posted before me. I just retolexed a 1960 cab for a friend who plays it with an Orange head. The thing is that I've been asked if the speakers were Rolas. From then, I started looking to see what it was all about (Rola- Pre-Rola...) and discovered that they're the "classic" Marshalls speakers and that the Greenbacks M20 were the closest "reedition". So, from then, I considered the G12T75 to be "modern" and that I wanted the "vintage" sound...

 

[Musicmaniac]

Sounds like the cream back would work best.

 

[Michael Roe]

Well, I'll have to add another Creamback guy here. I have two 2x12 cabs with Creamback 65s. One is an over size Bogner and the other is a Marshall 2061CX.
I can assure you that the cab size will make a huge difference in how much bass you get even if using the same speaker.
My Bogner has waaaaay more bottom end then my Marshall.
I would go as far and say that the cab size would make as much of a difference in tone as the speaker. Another important ingredient is the grill cloth.

 

[Adieu]

The LOWEST rated popular speakers you can use safely in a pair with this head are g12-65 or V30

Worth considering:
G12-65
V30 / Marshall Vintage / Mesa V30
G12-80 (vintage) / CL-80 / Mesa-branded MC90
Marshall Heritage


...and pairings of the above

 

[J Saw]

Alnico cream are excellent. Creamback 65 or 75 all three will do perfectly.
IMO, better bass response from the creams when pushed. They are the
greenback sound with more watts. Break-in with patience and it will make sense.
Cream

 

[StingRay85]

JMP '80 2104 combo had G12-65s

They can be found for about 150 each

 

[Scumback Speakers]

Well, I'll have to add another Creamback guy here. I have two 2x12 cabs with Creamback 65s. One is an over size Bogner and the other is a Marshall 2061CX.
I can assure you that the cab size will make a huge difference in how much bass you get even if using the same speaker.
My Bogner has waaaaay more bottom end then my Marshall.
I would go as far and say that the cab size would make as much of a difference in tone as the speaker. Another important ingredient is the grill cloth.

You're right. The Bogner cabs use 3/4" plywood, Marshall cabs use 5/8". A deeper/wider OS cab will produce more bass than a narrower/shallower cab. And thinner black grill cloth lets more highs out versus salt & pepper/aka basketweave cloth, too.

You have to balance all of those things to get the tone you want.

 

[Michael Roe]

You're right. The Bogner cabs use 3/4" plywood, Marshall cabs use 5/8". A deeper/wider OS cab will produce more bass than a narrower/shallower cab. And thinner black grill cloth lets more highs out versus salt & pepper/aka basketweave cloth, too.

You have to balance all of those things to get the tone you want.

Exactly! That's why I always tell youngsters to get a Good cab first! Build your tone around that. I would rather play a crappy amp through a good cab than a good amp through a crappy cab. That cab makes the bigger difference in tone. With good speakers and a well made cab, you are half way there!