Friedman amplification

[Bad Cat]

I thought this was very interesting:
Since i am new to the forum i cannot send a thread containing a link: Therefor go to you tube and look after tonymckenziecom with the title : The worst tube amplifier i ever bought/ Friedman JJ Jnr Amp/ How could they sell it like this?

 

[Guitar-Rocker]

I think the Friedmann company does a lot to not get customer returns for misc stuff (evident in some of their circuitry designs). Most all panel snap switches rely on the rear tabs to hold them tight to the chassis. While the switch in the photo isn't pretty, and I'm not a fan of goop, I'd bet it never comes loose.

 

[PelliX]

@Bad Cat I saw that video, and while I appreciate a 'fellow critic' (yes, we all love to knock gear, and there is hardly a device that I could not find some "fault" with), I think he's a bit rough on the design. What I'm referring to is for example the criticism of using relays or components that he didn't (correctly) identify. He knocks the JJ valves right off, too - which I think is rather biased (pun not intended). I understand the 'ugh, China' reaction to what are presumably Shuguang pre-amp valves, but a lot of people swear by them. I don't care for them much either, but that's at least based on experience.

To be clear; I don't have a dog in this fight - I own some modern-ish Marshall gear which has its own pitfalls and cost induced corner cutting. Never tried a Friedman, so I can't judge the most important apsect: tone.

Some of my own thoughts while looking at the amp, though:

Pros

- Decent looking main PCB, shame that it was not cleaned properly and you can see flux rests and whatnot all over.
- Wiring to the full size, decent looking, pots. Very nice. Some are ALPHA, some... aren't by the looks of it.
- Modular design for the boards inside - easy service.

Cons

- Very high component density - this is something I criticize Mesa for, too. Sure, small package, lots of functions - likely lowering the MTBF considerably if not done extremely well.
- Agree on the 'silicon/glued' in switches. Although the pressure is applied from the front, come on, get a switch with proper retaining tabs or screws. Maybe these have the tabs and the silicon just stops them wobbling about a bit. Screws solve that problem anyway.
- Valve sockets on the main board - what a pity. I blame plenty of manufacturers for doing this, Friedman is no exception. In fact, if he "improves" on Marshall designs, then he's got something to do.
- The dummy load resistor attached to the chassis seems to be (almost) touching the insulation on the wires in front of it. Heatsinks should not touch wires or even get too close.
- Some of the solder joints really look a bit dodgy, as if there wasn't enough heat applied but it could be a one-off, of course.
- In theory I agree that the high wattage resistors could have been mounted elevated from the board a little. It's all RoHS, so expansion/contraction of the board are more problematic, etc.
- The output and power transformers share the same orientation and are packed close together. Typically those are things you don't really want, but that might not be a problem.
- For the price of the amp, I would expect top notch components like capacitors. Are the ones installed bad? I have no idea, honestly, but we all know the 'big players' in the cap business.

 

[Bad Cat]

In addition to what you wrote here some comments from Tony and som commentators: 1. Faulty JBE switch. Peach guitars answer: That is basically normal with these amps.

2.
"Those flying components and soldering iron burns look like something you’d expect from an amp that was messed with by a day one amateur. The silicon is a fix for sub par quality switches/jacks, basically a red flag that they expect them to fail prematurely. Installing ceramic resistors that handle any real current against a PCB is another red flag. It is sign that whomever assembled the amp either doesn’t care or doesn’t know any better, which are two different problems. Annnd the biggest red flag of them all, PCB MOUNTED TUBE SOCKETS. Has not anyone learned yet???? Remember, these are through hole PCB’s. These components are installed by hand. This looks like poor training, poor leadership and penny pinching to me. You are buying a name, not a product in this situation.


3. For me, the biggest fault of this amp is the ceramic resistors so close to the electrolytic caps. Heat is the #1 thing that kills these caps. They would have done better moving the caps into the wide open area of the board reserved for the "friedman" logo, and spreading out the ceramic resistors to keep them cool. I've seen resistors like this in other amps, but they intentionally install the leads half way so the body sits 1/2" above the PCB. If the rest of the amp looked good, i'd give them the benefit of the doubt and say they might have used significantly over rated parts (2W resistor to dissipate 0.25W), but i don't think that's the case.

 

[rick16v]

I thought it was a really exaggerated review. If that's the worst amp he's ever bought then he has been blessed.

It looks like either that amp has a back story or there is more to this.

The JBE switch not working is clearly not right.

Odd the shop would ignore his apparently genuine complaint when he's a quite well known YouTube reviewer with 10s of thousands of views.

 

[PelliX]

I thought it was a really exaggerated review. If that's the worst amp he's ever bought then he has been blessed.

Couldn't agree more. He tried a CODE, too. He didn't like that one either, which I can fully understand. I'd prefer the Friedman to the CODE, except for price.

 

[mcblink]

I'll defend the JJ Jr., as I actually own one.

It's awesome and not defective, and sounds absolutely monstrous for a 20w el84 amp. Run it through a 4x12, put an eq in the loop, and you cannot tell it's not the 100w. 100dB at volume level 3.

Obviously he got a singular defective amp, (shit happens sometimes) so I guess that just means we get to shit all over the rest of them too....

Sounds a bit like sour grapes to me...

 

[PelliX]

Obviously he got a singular defective amp, (shit happens sometimes) so I guess that just means we get to shit all over the rest of them too....

Well, with all due respect, I am willing to believe that applies to some of the points outlined above (dodgy solder work, burns on the cables, flux or defluxer on the board, and so on). There are some design considerations that are not singular, such as the placement and/or selection of certain components. I'm not very familiar with the Friedman amps, myself, so maybe this is a 'Monday morning model', but at those prices I would be disappointed to hear that. There's often a big difference between the user experience relating to a working unit and what a tech sees when he 'pops the hood' as it were.

I must again admit that I have not yet actually heard one live, let alone played through one. Lots of people rave about them, so the sound is probably pretty good. If the unit works for you and lives up to the price you paid - then great - enjoy it, man! If it breaks down (knock on wood) then I'd love to hear what the guy servicing it has to say. On the bright side, my guess would be that replacement parts (boards, etc) can be bought from him individually, so that would be a plus in my book.

 

[tallcoolone]

Very very few sub $2k amps have chassis mounted tube sockets.

Can pcb mounted tube sockets fail? Sure.

Have I ever had an issue in the prob 100+amps I’ve had that also didn’t have chassis mounted tube sockets? Nope.

Settle down there Hot Pants with your clickbait crap

 

[Dogs of Doom]

McKenzie... he's a big fan of the TSL100... ...

He's done replaced everything on his TSL, yet speaks fondly of his baby.

 

[PelliX]

Very very few sub $2k amps have chassis mounted tube sockets.

I agree, but I fail to understand the choice. Of course it makes sense to slap them in/on the board on a budget amp, but for boutique stuff? Different sockets maybe and some wiring, done. Does the cost of the labor involved really justify this?

Have I ever had an issue in the prob 100+amps I’ve had that also didn’t have chassis mounted tube sockets? Nope.

Sure, it's not a clear cut case of 'PCB mounted sockets will cause a failure within X months/years'. Orientation (head vs combo), ambient temp, ventilation, quality of the PCB, quality of the solderwork, solder used, vibration/impact, type of valve used and a bunch of other factors contribute and can together cause a failure. An engineer will ideally anticipate these problems by looking at a design and 'correct' them before any damage occurs/the unit ships/the PCBs are created, provided the budget allows for the change. I doubt that Friedman are unaware of this, so why did they make the choice they did? There are plenty of cheaper amps that have the same construction and component quality, so I guess the tone must justify the price. I'd sure like to spend an afternoon with one of those amps....

 

[tallcoolone]

I agree, but I fail to understand the choice. Of course it makes sense to slap them in/on the board on a budget amp, but for boutique stuff? Different sockets maybe and some wiring, done. Does the cost of the labor involved really justify this

This is one of Friedman’s budget line of amps. Far from ‘boutique’. It costs the same as a Marshall Studio series. Which also has board mounted tube sockets I believe.

Sure, it's not a clear cut case of 'PCB mounted sockets will cause a failure within X months/years'.

Nope, not at all. Like I said, over 100 amps over 35yrs and never an issue.

 

[Buzzard]

Hasn't tony mckenzie been known to try and extort gear co's by threatening with bad reviews?

 

[Dogs of Doom]

No offence intended, just asking nicely

looks like you're not off to a good start here.

The main premise of the few rules this site has, is respect towards other members & no personal attacks.

You can disagree w/ his ideas, but once you start attacking him personally, is a good way to find yourself in trouble here.

3 posts in & mostly inflammatory.

Probably a good time for you to read the rules:

https://www.marshallforum.com/threads/the-marshallforum-rules.38997/

Your signing up, you agreed to follow the rules & the consequences of not adhering to them. We are a lenient staff, but, someone comes rolling in both barrels a blazing, we can not let someone come in & disrupt the whole forum, because they have a vendetta against a brand...

I deleted your post. If you feel you must say what you had to, to defend the OP, then try so, w/o the personal attacks...

 

[Evil Z06]

Hasn't tony mckenzie been known to try and extort gear co's by threatening with bad reviews?

I have been subscribed to Tony’s channel for a while I have never gotten that impression at all. I believe that all his reviews are honest with no bullshit…. Except on the last one about the Friedman JJ Junior….. I thought the title of it was way over exaggerated…..by reading the title I thought it was the biggest piece of crap which it is not. I own one and have been inside of it… oh by the way Tony loved the sound of it

 

[rick16v]

His reviews are actually useful as he talks about stuff others don't, and opens amps up. Just gotta cut through the fact he's pretty slow and talks too much.

 

[mcblink]

I have been subscribed to Tony’s channel for a while I have never gotten that impression at all. I believe that all his reviews are honest with no bullshit…. Except on the last one about the Friedman JJ Junior….. I thought the title of it was way over exaggerated…..by reading the title I thought it was the biggest piece of crap which it is not. I own one and have been inside of it… oh by the way Tony loved the sound of it

I haven't been inside mine yet. I don't suppose you took any gut shots while you were in there, did you? Just out of curiosity

 

[Evil Z06]

I haven't been inside mine yet. I don't suppose you took any gut shots while you were in there, did you? Just out of curiosity

Yes I took lots of gut shots here is the link

I haven't been inside mine yet. I don't suppose you took any gut shots while you were in there, did you? Just out of curiosity

https://www.rig-talk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=203725&p=2249399

 

[tallcoolone]

Does the cost of the labor involved really justify this?

 

[jamvu]

I just bought a Friedman BE 100 and that thing flat out rocks. It has already replaced my no.1 and made it 1A (Orange OR100 1970). For me to say that, the amp quality has to be good dammit.

Just 1 man's opinion.

Rock on,

JAMVU