G12H30 vs Vintage 30's vs G12T75

[Snakeface]

What are the differences in tone between G12H30's, Vintage 30's and G12T75...more bass, more mids, less bright, etc ???

I found a good deal on a cab with g12h30's and maybe I will play installing different speakers in the other cab I have.....so how would these type of speakers fit with the Jubilee ?

 

[dju]

go to youtube and do a search for these speakers. I watched a video just a couple of days ago that demoed these three speakers. while I never thought youtube sounded as good as what things sound like in real life it might be good enough to get you started.

dj

 

[hbach]

In very simple terms: H30 is even, loud, good bass, V30 VERY mid/high mid heavy, "honky" you could say. T75 is mid scooped. Thats why people like combining the V30 with either of the other two.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jWK0sa7tlfI]15 Speakers compared Celestion vs E.V. vs Eminence vs JBL vs Jensen vs Tone Tubby - YouTube[/ame]

This is actually well recorded and you can hear the difference as it is the same amp, guitar, EQ setting and riff being played.
What I did is close my eyes and open them when I hear something I like, that way you are not biased by the speker you think should be the best.

 

[poeman33]

hbach described it well. I wouldn't say "honky" for the V30, but they really accentuate the mids, and they cut through the mix very well. I have a 2x12 with a G12H30 and a V30 and they are a very good mix.

 

[BeardedRetroGuy]

Wow. An unbiased comparison of the speakers. Awesome.

After watching the video, I think I can hear why people keep talking about the V30s.

 

[rjtm]

In very simple terms: H30 is even, loud, good bass, V30 VERY mid/high mid heavy, "honky" you could say. T75 is mid scooped. Thats why people like combining the V30 with either of the other two.

15 Speakers compared Celestion vs E.V. vs Eminence vs JBL vs Jensen vs Tone Tubby - YouTube

This is actually well recorded and you can hear the difference as it is the same amp, guitar, EQ setting and riff being played.
What I did is close my eyes and open them when I hear something I like, that way you are not biased by the speker you think should be the best.

Wow, thats a great video! Thanks!

 

[joe web]

on an other topic someone asked for soundfiles of a 2203 amp without pedals.
so i did a 15 minutes demo of a JMP 2203 with different celestion speakers.

you can here the differences between a G12-65, G12T75, Vintage30 and an old G12M25

there is no G12H30 in this file, but i guess you can hear the differences between those other speakers.
have had a 2550 SJ in the past and i hooked it up to a H30 cabinet - loved that sound!
the H30s deliver a nice bottom end, which is cool with a lot of older marshall amps.

2203 Celestion Demo

 

[maltone]

Does anyone know of a higher wattage speaker, say 100 watts power handling, that sounds like the G12H Heritage?

I want to run my DSL 100 through a 2X12, using 1 G12K-100, and something else for more midrange hump, but the same power handling. I'm surprised Celestion doesn't have anything like a higher rated version of the G12H. Any ideas? Thanks

 

[hbach]

maltone, Scumback has vintage Celestion clones with high power handling. I have not tried them but they are supposed to be fantastic (reflected in the price!)

Someone else put that video up in this same forum in the first place, so thanks to him.

 

[paul-e-mann]

Does anyone know of a higher wattage speaker, say 100 watts power handling, that sounds like the G12H Heritage?

I want to run my DSL 100 through a 2X12, using 1 G12K-100, and something else for more midrange hump, but the same power handling. I'm surprised Celestion doesn't have anything like a higher rated version of the G12H. Any ideas? Thanks

The 100w Jensen C12K is very midrangey. Never paired it up with anything else. I built a cab with it for my MG100 to get rid of the scoop and it worked very well.

 

[maltone]

Ha, that was me that put up the scumback demo. I "think" they're probably good speakers but without hearing them in person..hmmm.

I take people's advice here more seriously, those who actually own the speaker, or have mixed different ones. It's an investment to see if you like one or not.

 

[johnfv]

Does anyone know of a higher wattage speaker, say 100 watts power handling, that sounds like the G12H Heritage?

I want to run my DSL 100 through a 2X12, using 1 G12K-100, and something else for more midrange hump, but the same power handling. I'm surprised Celestion doesn't have anything like a higher rated version of the G12H. Any ideas? Thanks

You might consider the WGS Liberator 80. It's supposed to be an 80 watt version of the ET65. I've not tried this particular speaker but all the other WGS stuff I have is excellent (and reasonably priced):
https://wgs4.com/liberator-80-80-watts

 

[AudioWonderland]

Does anyone know of a higher wattage speaker, say 100 watts power handling, that sounds like the G12H Heritage?

I want to run my DSL 100 through a 2X12, using 1 G12K-100, and something else for more midrange hump, but the same power handling. I'm surprised Celestion doesn't have anything like a higher rated version of the G12H. Any ideas? Thanks

Closest I can think of is the Eminence Wizard

 

[HOT TUBES 70]

My 4x12 has 4 G12H 30's , and i love them , would never trade them .....

 

[maltone]

johnfv - I just listened to that Liberator 80. WOW, great sounding speaker. Maybe I'll just get 2 of those and put them into a 2 X 12. Thanks for posting that - I didn't even know they existed.

 

[rjtm]

For the Jubilee, I found a really interesting article someone on another forum posted about the speakers in the Jubilee and how it affects it. Here it is:

I acquired a Marshall Silver Jubilee 25/50 Model 2555 head many moons ago, in the late 80's, and later a matching Silver Jubilee model 2551B 300w bottom 4x12 cab for the head. I have owned this rig ever since, as part of my amp collection. Note that the Jubilee cab was the standard version loaded with G12T-75s. I almost sold this little rig a few times, but am now glad I did not, based on a recent, suprising little discovery that should have been totally obvious to me from day one.

I have used stock and modded 1970's and 1980's Marshall JMP 2203 and JCM800 2203 100w amps since long before acquiring the 2555 half stack, and continued to use them for metal and heavy rock gigs, long after, usually with just a tube screamer or sd-1 out front, with an NS-2 to settle down the noise. I used the 2555 to gig a bit, early on, and made good use of its effects loop, but didn't quite dig the rig enough. The 2203's just sounded bigger, more raw, bolder, fatter, punchier, more crushing, less compressed, less scooped, less dark, less fizzy, smoother etc., than the 2555.

In the 80's and early 90's I used my 2203 heads with four Marshall standard 300w 1960B cabs loaded with G12T-75 speakers, for many years. The 2203 amps liked those speakers for the heavy stuff back in the day, and I had ways around the harsh top end when it was time for leads. I had other cabs loaded with greenbacks, blackbacks and G12-65s for my personal enjoyment, but didn't wanna beat up and/or blow them out for loud, heavily distorted gigs or practices. The 75's were cheap and common and had a heavy sound well-suited to the 2203 for what I needed at the time, and mine were really well broken in. The amp and speaker were voiced for one another, as well. I had even tried the 2203 rig a bunch of times with V30s but just found them kinda unpleasant, spikey, and too full of filler sizzle and chesty mids for the 2203 amps, which were not really voiced originally for the V30, but can work with them for some folks. YMMV.

The 2555 was always a minor frustration to me. In light of my monster 2203 rig, it never sounded quite "right," especially with its own matching silver 300w 2551B cab.

Why was the 25/50 anniversary model a step down sonically, in my mind, from the standard 2203, I always wondered, as I would listen to its slightly fizzy extra filler in the gain, thinner lead tone, weird overly scooped and compressed mids, and funky lows. What was going on here?

Why was this amp both oddly dark, and slightly brittle and fizzy in the treble, at the same time? Why were my eq settings so odd, and never quite right? This was even the case when the clipping diodes were disengaged (the pull rhythm clip circuit was off) and I was just running it with straight tube preamp gain. For my 25w greenback/blackback cabs, G12H30 cabs, G12-65 cabs, and all my G12T-75 cabs, especially the Jubilee's own matching 300w cab, the eq just seemed WRONGLY SUITED to these speakers, albeit some certainly sounded better than others. Especially the mids seemed way wrong, too nasty when turned up too far, too dark and weirdly compressed if you turned the knob down too far. Treble was just scratchy, too.

I was recently discussing the Jubilee circuit with a noteworthy amp tech whom mentioned to me that the Silver Jubilee had started with the 2203 circuit and power section, then was considerably tweaked from there to add a host of features (more gain, optional clipping circuit, passive loop, channel switching, etc). More importantly, however, Marshall wanted an "ultimate" silver anniversary amp to introduce for their 25/50 anniversary, in silver trim and grey tolex, that would also match the voicing of celestion's exciting and newly developed "Vintage" high output speaker for Marshall, intended to be a high power mix of an alnico speaker and a G12H30, sonically. Now more commonly known as the V30, the Marshall "Vintage" was and still is an OEM Marshall-only speaker developed in about 1986 and really rolled out for and with the Jubilee amps, among a few others.

Hence, and to the point, I am advised the eq range on the 2555 head is vastly different from the 2203, not to be more "flexible" as some speculate, but BECAUSE the entire tone circuit of the 25/50 amps was modified to suit the low end, midrange, and treble frequencies and overall voicing of.......the bloody "Vintage" speaker! Just like the dark and misunderstood Bogner XTC 101B was revoiced from the Bogner 100B, to match the bright V30s Bogner had switched to.

Unfortunately, Marshall sold the Jubilee cabs with Vintages only as a pricey "upgrade option", as the 2551av/bv model. The standard Silver Jubilee 2551A/B cabs, unfortunately, all came with one of two speakers...either 1) the G12M-70s (with thin treble and limited bass, which almost everyone seems to hate) in a 280w labeled cab, or 2) the G12T-75s (with scooped mids and slightly harsh highs, but big bass, which metal guys like but vintage guys hate) in a 300w labeled cab.

Having not been a big fan of V30s over the last 20 years with my 2203s, I never owned any in a 4x12 for any real length of time, and had never even thought to plug the Jubilee into them. But I recently acquired a bunch of V30s of all different models to test in the studio for recording, and to shoot out against each other.

I rushed off and plugged my Jubilee 2555 head into one of my Bogner 4x12 cabs loaded with a certain model of English V30s, and I cannot believe my ears! Wow do I feel like a dope! ALL THE TONE KNOBS WORK, AND DO WHAT THEY'RE SUPPOSED TO! I can use the presence knob. I can actually push the mids up and it sounds smooth and rich. The amp no longer sounds dark and congested. What sounds like a fatiguing and ugly mid spike from the V30 with my 2203s perfectly fills in the weird, scooped mids of the Jubilee's dark eq, making the big fat punchy warm mids that were always missing. The Jubilee's ugly, fizzy treble is now perfectly rolled off by the rolled-of top end of the V30s, so the lead tone is now warm, smooth and thick, with nice attack and sag. The 2555's odd, thuddy low end and lack of low mids is now tight and properly eq'ed to match the low end roll-off, and bumped-up low mids, of the V30s. And the amp is now way louder, way more cutting, less fatiguing, and way more fluid with the higher-efficiency V30s. Wow what a roaring rhythm sound, and excellent lead tone!

Using the Jubilee circuit with its properly matched V30 speakers is like a key fitting precisely into a lock. Everything falls right into place. It's finally like coming home, and is the tone I've always wanted from that amp!

It's not about V30s or G12M-70's or G12T-75s being good or bad speakers, it's about the amp designer matching the amp's eq's frequencies to work precisely and ideally with the chosen speaker that they DESIGNED THE AMP AROUND.

Shame on Marshall for voicing the Jubilee specifically for Vintages, and then selling most of these amps and cabs with G12M-70's or G12T-75s, as a downgrade. While it can work fine with the 70's or 75's, and is just OK sounding (maybe), the V30's DESTROY IN THIS AMP. It sounds BEAUTIFUL. I can't even believe I'm writing that!!!! I've been known all these years to really dislike and even openly hate on V30s with many amps. I'm pleasantly shocked. Everything I disliked about V30s with my other marshalls is completely the opposite with the Jubilee.

Folks, if you have/had a Jubilee and don't/didn't understand the hype, try plugging one into some V30's, crank up, and be blown away. This amp kills it, and sounds amazing! Bye bye, tweaking frustrations! If you have a Jubilee combo amp or cabinet you don't really like, LOOK inside at what's printed on the speakers, and see what you're actually playing through!

Sorry for the small book! Cheers!

 

[wreckingball]

That small-book of a post makes perfect sense to me rjtm, thanks for posting it!

 

[rjtm]

That small-book of a post makes perfect sense to me rjtm, thanks for posting it!

No problem

 

[Ken]

Wow...that's a point of view I can't remember reading before. Thanks for the re-post!

Ken

 

[rjtm]

Wow...that's a point of view I can't remember reading before. Thanks for the re-post!

Ken

No problem!