Get those JJ preamp tubes out of your 1959RR!

[thegaindeli]

OK... I replaced the power-tubes,and now the JJ's sound great! Weird?

 

[mmorse]

I've had JJ 83s and 803s. I didn't like them much either. Then again, I'm REALLY old. I'm not into really high gain. I'm more of a classic rock gain type of person. Give me old Mullards, old EIs (pre'85), or Raytheon US made blackplates. The only JJ power tubes I've used are the 6v6s and really like those.

I will say this. The new amps I've had didn't seem to benefit from NOS glass nearly as much as the older amps I've had.

 

[thegaindeli]

The TC level of "short-plate" tubes is pretty low - or so I was told.Check out this link on PI tubes,and its note on JJ's tubes.
http://www.guitaramplifierblueprinting.com/files/Phaseinverter.pdf

 

[steelhorse]

Thanks for the reference thegaindeli! I've downloaded it and will check it out for sure.

I've had JJ 83s and 803s. I didn't like them much either. Then again, I'm REALLY old. I'm not into really high gain. I'm more of a classic rock gain type of person. Give me old Mullards, old EIs (pre'85), or Raytheon US made blackplates. The only JJ power tubes I've used are the 6v6s and really like those.

I will say this. The new amps I've had didn't seem to benefit from NOS glass nearly as much as the older amps I've had.

I think you're right about the NOS not doing as well in the newer amps mmorse, the other issue is finding a reliable source of tested NOS tubes that don't require me to take a second mortgage on the house!

What are your sources?

 

[MajorWatt]

Just replaced the awful sounding JJ's 12AX7 tubes from my 1959RR... WHAT A DIFFERENCE!!!
I personally think JJ's 12AX7's are some of the worst preamp tubes ever made! IMO they're just to stiff,and lack acoustical dynamics.Even without my TS9 turned on,the amp would feedback like crazy! I had my volume I at maximum,and my volume II at 2:00 o'clock.I'm always plugged into my THD,and play at the 12db setting.I pulled the JJ's and replaced them with 2 original Mullards,and a 5751 tube at the PI(or V3 position).NO MORE FEEDBACK! This Improved drive,tone,picking dynamics,and improved focus 10 fold! It was sounding kind of harsh,and the feedback was quite annoying.I can switch over to a 12AX7 at the PI to increase my power-tube drive intensity if I want.At least that's how my ears perceive it anyway? I pulled the JJ's out of my Guytron,and have experienced the same improvements their also.

Yes, I have heard the same thing in regards to JJ's preamp tubes. Now their
power tubes are a different story. I really like their KT-88's in my Majors and in a couple of Superleads and Hiwatt 100/200's I have.

 

[steelhorse]

Unless you've tried them for yourself you really can't say with any certainty.

I never go based on what someone else says. I'm a skeptic in the sense that I have to test it for myself and personally, I think the JJ's pre amp tubes are quite good.

I have other pre's on the way for my Vintage Modern (Tung Sol and Penta) so once again I'm game for trying out different combination's in different amps but that said, the JJ's were a nice improvement over the stock valves more in the V4 than anywhere else but the tone smoothed out especially on the high end.

 

[MajorWatt]

Unless you've tried them for yourself you really can't say with any certainty.

I never go based on what someone else says. I'm a skeptic in the sense that I have to test it for myself and personally, I think the JJ's pre amp tubes are quite good.

I have other pre's on the way for my Vintage Modern (Tung Sol and Penta) so once again I'm game for trying out different combination's in different amps but that said, the JJ's were a nice improvement over the stock valves more in the V4 than anywhere else but the tone smoothed out especially on the high end.

Yes, it's just that I still have a bucket of Mullard/Amperex/RCA pre's that I use, so I haven't had to buy any new production preamp tubes yet.
I know they would be an improvement over the stock pre's Marshall puts in their new amps. I changed out the stock pres in my Hendrix stack right away. Big improvement!

 

[steelhorse]

Nice problem to have a bucket full of pre amp tubes! heh

I have a shelf full of pre's and a drawer full of power tubes, but not a bucket full!

 

[MajorWatt]

Nice problem to have a bucket full of pre amp tubes! heh

I have a shelf full of pre's and a drawer full of power tubes, but not a bucket full!

Well, it's actually more like a drawer full than a bucket. Just sounds more dramatic.

 

[601 Blues]

Muh feelins is hurt!!said muh 900 sounds like Bird shit!!

 

[joeellistsl]

Muh feelins is hurt!!said muh 900 sounds like Bird shit!!

LOL 601 Blues. That really tickled my funny bone for some reason. Don't feel too bad, he also said my TSL sounds the same way. I thought it sounded pretty good with stock tubes and speaker but I changed the power tubes to Tung-Sol EL34B's and the speaker to Celestion G12-75. I received a call today that the tech was finished rebiasing, so I'll pick it up Friday. We'll see if it improves on the "bird s@#$" sound. I also have new 12AX7's ordered and they should be here tomorrow.

I also agree with some of the replies to your original post thegaindeli. I thought it was a little harsh myself. I think there are many people around that are so convinced older amps are so far superior to the new ones that they don't give the new stuff a chance. I will be buying a 1974X sometime next year. I thought this was one of the sweetest sounding amps I have ever heard (for blues & classic rock) the first time I played through one. I also recently read a magazine review (on the web) on this amp and the reviewer stated he thought i was far superior to the original in sound, quality and workmanship. Imagine that. I read so much stuff that I'm not sure where I read it, but if I find it, I will post. I have been around for a while too (49) and have heard a few vintage amps. Even if I could find one, I couldn't afford it, and more than likely it would need some work, maybe a lot.

I'm sure you know a lot about amps, but frankly, your original post is the type that bothers me. Everyone has an opinion and has the right to voice it, but we don't need to trash other peoples equipment. Tone is in the ear of the beholder.

 

[mmorse]

I think you're right about the NOS not doing as well in the newer amps mmorse, the other issue is finding a reliable source of tested NOS tubes that don't require me to take a second mortgage on the house!

What are your sources?

Testing will only tell if a tube is good or bad. Not how much is left. I don't even worry about it. Believe it or not, I've gotten most of my old stock from fleabay. You need to educate yourself as best you can and know what to look for. I've only gotten burned once and it was actually an honest mistake by the seller. He advertised Japanese "Mullards" as the real thing. I didn't pay much so I wasn't really bothered by it. They are pretty good tubes anyway. Just not as good as Blackburn Mullards.

I even took a chance and paid for a quartet of old Mullard XF4 34s from someone in Singapore. I paid just $125 for the 4 and crossed my fingers I would actually get them. They got to me in less than a week and the only thing that was wrong was one was an Xf2 and one was an XF1! And all looked and worked perfectly.

Actually, I did buy a brand new Mullard from a well respected dealer. Paid $100 for one ax7. It was my first Mullard. I wanted to see for myself what all the hub bub was about. The damn thing blew up in my amp after only one month. But it did sound glorious for that month. There are no guarantees when it comes to those little glass bottles.

So now I've got a bunch of old Mullard ax7s, and 34s. Also have some Siemens RFT 34s plus Telefunkin ax7s, Raytheon blackplates, a few old EIs, Tungsrams, Siemens ax7s, RCA blackplate 5751s and some oddball stuff.

And they only thing I'm using right now are 3 Tele ax7s and new production KT88s. Go figure. I did put a 5751 in my plexitube pedal and a Mullard in my HT Dual pedal. So one of my Mullards is getting regular use.

 

[MajorWatt]

An overlooked point is that new amps are designed around the new production tubes. Different voltage requirements and limits. Old amps sound best with the tubes they were designed around too. That would be Mullards/RCA/Sylvania, etc.
Putting NOS tubes in a new amp, may not give the big "blow up your skirt" moment you were hoping for, but if you have the money, they probably won't hurt either. One thing there is no argument about, is the longevity of old build tubes.

 

[601 Blues]

Gezz !!!now I know why muh 900 sounds like bird shit!! there's JJs in der!!:Ohno:

 

[thegaindeli]

Gezz !!!now I know why muh 900 sounds like bird shit!! there's JJs in der!!:Ohno:

I wasn't looking to insult you... I just think it's common knowledge that the JCM900 amps sound awful! There are great Marhall's o' plenty to purchase - so I don't know why anyone would bother with the 900 models? If it's a money issue,then I understand.If someone offered to sell me a JCM900 for $50.00 - I'd probably buy it - maybe? Do the right thing... Sell the JCM900,and buy a Plexi or a JCM800.The new Vintage Modern is a sweet amp also! The JCM900 was an experimental amp.The fact that Marshall dropped the circuit is a positive indication that what I'm saying is the truth.Why defend it? Marshall doesn't - so why should you?

 

[601 Blues]

awful ya say?? 50.00???is that an offer??make it 75.??? I kinda like it, no problems and I do have a Plexi and a 800,as well But like em all Ive plyed a lotta shows with the 900, awful??? man your a super guy!!glad ta meet ya, what about Benders??

 

[mmorse]

an Overlooked Point Is That New Amps Are Designed Around The New Production Tubes. Different Voltage Requirements And Limits. Old Amps Sound Best With The Tubes They Were Designed Around Too. That Would Be Mullards/rca/sylvania, Etc.
Putting Nos Tubes In A New Amp, May Not Give The Big "blow Up Your Skirt" Moment You Were Hoping For, But If You Have The Money, They Probably Won't Hurt Either. One Thing There Is No Argument About, Is The Longevity Of Old Build Tubes.

+1000!

 

[thegaindeli]

You're a "Marshall enthusiast"...where I am not.There are players out there who play nothing but Marshall amps - and that's cool! I play what I think sound great - and so do you.I assume there are amplifiers out there that you would never play? Take the Soldano SLO 100... IMO,the SLO100 is probably one of the greatest amps ever built.It cuts through the mix like no other amp I've ever played! But there's just something missing that I can't quite zero-in on? It seems to have a certain compression to it that the Marshall Super Lead doesn't have? I've gotten close by replacing the screen resistors,and switching over to EL34 valves...but no cigar! The JCM900 amp has a "clipping" sound that IMHO just doesn't sound right? I played Marshall amps for 10 years before the JCM900 came onto the scene.I've tried to "make nice" with the JCM900...I really did.One of the coolest Marshall's I've ever owned was a 6100 Anniversary head.That thing flat out rocked in terms of gain! If I'm not mistaken..that amp has hybrid circuit: Plexi,JCM800,and a JCM900? It certainly had the best "clean" sound I've ever heard from a Marshall - but I don't buy Marshall's for clean sounds.Some days the amp would sound great... Other days - not so good.I've heard that the brass logo model sounds better - but I wouldn't know? Maybe the 3 JCM900's I played were poor examples of that model? If you say the JCM900 you own sounds great,then I must bow to your conviction.Maybe I'll try some other 900's out? But don't get upset because I have an opinion...unsolicited as it may be.
Geez! Everyone has become so f#@%ing sensitive? Throw all the e-pies in face that you want! Chances are - we'll both learn something?

 

[601 Blues]

well what Ive learned over the last 40+ years and thousands of dollars of eq, and chasing the phantom tone is, whats good for one may not fit another,I have heard wonderful soundin axes and amps in the hands of others that sounded like crap in mine, but that did not make the eq bad it just didn't fit me, I don't believe in a magic bullet in amps or guitars, I belive in whatever eq you feel comfortable with and you work with it enough to be able to work together thats when it becomes a great piece of Eq. Some of the greatest recordings of old Blues men were from pieces of crap that we would never consider pickin up, And Ive learned that I can have a feelin about somthin and voice it without havin somone else pay the cost, Maybe one amp was not that popular among a wide crowd like silver tone but still that does not make it bad and you can voice that without pissin people off, I have 27 amps Peaveys,Fenders, Vox, Marshalls, Epi, Gibson, Boogie, Crate, Orange, and I will choose My Marshalls everytime, and untill I get more comfortable with my New Plexi,I will still use my 900 as a go to, and By the way Money is not the issue,

 

[thegaindeli]

I have a 1959RR also, and I'm going to try some different tubes to see if I can soften it a bit. It's very hard edged and I'm having trouble finding usable tones as it is.

For the record I'm less than tickled with JJs myself. Not my flavour.

Use a Sovtek LPS in V1,a 5751 in V2,and a JJ's 12AT7 Gold Pin in V3.I've found that this combination gives the best results.Make sure you use a "long-plate" 12AX7 in V1 though.The Sovtek LPS sounds fantastic!