Helpful Tip For Dsl20 Owners For Ultra-low Volume Playing

[Deep Purple fan]

bedroom levels sounds kick ass) just keep the bias cool its much better

Nice job

 

[Antmax]

I have been choking the FX loop on my 20h since someone recommended the technique to me when I was getting the amp about 2 months ago and wanted to know how it handled low volumes. I have a EQ pedal with 12db level cut in the FX loop and it works like the OP said. Lowers the pre amp output before the power amp gets the signal, so you can turn up the power amp and get a fuller sound at low volumes.

Works great and means you can get a reasonable tone even as low as conversation level.

 

[guitarman3001]

No, the CH volumes do not affect the emulated out.

I thought that might be the case. Unfortunately yours has a problem that affects both the emulated out and the FX loop. This was confirmed to me directly by Marshall. If you check out my other thread, I had to go through four replacement amps before I got one that finally worked right. Not sure how old yours is but if you're still within the return period, you may want to exchange it for one of the newer ones that has already been fixed. If not, Marshall will fix it under warranty.

The FX loop isn't supposed to work the way you described yours and the channel volumes are supposed to work normally through the emulated out. According to Marshall, as I understood it both issues are corrected with one fix.

I bet there are at least several hundred, maybe even several thousand people with defective DSL20s without knowing it. They think the FX loop is just strange and they probably haven't tried the emulated out.

 

[stickyfinger]

Yes as mentioned the loop is before the master.

The most likely reason is because the PI (typically located after the MV) is a SS driver.

 

[Michael Roe]

I thought that might be the case. Unfortunately yours has a problem that affects both the emulated out and the FX loop. This was confirmed to me directly by Marshall. If you check out my other thread, I had to go through four replacement amps before I got one that finally worked right. Not sure how old yours is but if you're still within the return period, you may want to exchange it for one of the newer ones that has already been fixed. If not, Marshall will fix it under warranty.

The FX loop isn't supposed to work the way you described yours and the channel volumes are supposed to work normally through the emulated out. According to Marshall, as I understood it both issues are corrected with one fix.

I bet there are at least several hundred, maybe even several thousand people with defective DSL20s without knowing it. They think the FX loop is just strange and they probably haven't tried the emulated out.

Wait, so you are saying mine is defective?

 

[guitarman3001]

Wait, so you are saying mine is defective?

Yes. The volume controls are supposed to work normally through the emulated out. And the loop should also work normally.

 

[Michael Roe]

Yes. The volume controls are supposed to work normally through the emulated out. And the loop should also work normally.

So, what is the fix?

 

[Antmax]

I asked about the line out thing on the my Marshall support forum lastnight. Will be interesting to see if they respond.

 

[guitarman3001]

So, what is the fix?

Marshall wouldnt tell me. All they said was that it needs a "factory update" which fixes both the loop and the emulated out.

 

[paul-e-mann]

Found a very helpful, to me at least, common sense solution to an annoyance I discovered.

On the DSL20, and if I remember right my version 1 DSL40C also did it, if you're on the Ultra channel and turn the channel volume all the way down, there's still a bunch of high-end fizz/dirt that bleeds through. You have to turn the volume up to almost 9:00 before the fizz is compensated for by the rest of the frequencies. This makes ultra-quiet home playing a bit of a challenge because basically, at those low volumes you're getting mostly fizz which sounds like ass.

My first solution was an attenuator which worked OK but was a rather clunky solution.

This morning I had a blinding stroke of brilliance, or maybe just a stroke...., and remembered that somewhere in all my gear I have a little $20 passive volume box designed to go in an amp's effects loop. There are a bunch on the market but this one is made by Carl's Custom.

I stuck it in the FX loop and viola! It worked perfectly. I was able to turn the channel volume up as high as I wanted, which completely eliminated the fizz, while controlling the final output volume using the volume box. Of course, I know this doesn't engage the power section at all like an actual attenuator does, it just controls how much pre-amp signal is fed to the power section, but the fizz is coming from the preamp section and that's what I needed to get rid of.

I can now play at pin-drop volumes with a full sound and absolutely none of that low volume fizz.

I'm sure a regular volume pedal in the FX loop would likely do the same thing, maybe even a clean boost pedal using it as a volume control in the loop, but to me the passive volume box is a much cleaner solution since it doesn't require any power, so no extra power cables to worry about. Just a pair of 6" patch cables and you're all set.

It can also double as a way to boost volume for leads at band practice since the amp's footswitch lets you turn the loop on and off. Loop on with volume attenuated for rhythm parts, loop off for normal volume for leads.

Anyway, I'm sure most of you have already seen and know about these volume boxes but figured I'd share my solution in case anyone else was annoyed by the fizz that bleeds through at super low volumes and is looking for an easy solution.

Its got a headphone jack on the back, doesnt get any quieter play than that!

 

[Antmax]

Here's a video and info about choking the FX loop to perform this trick, as well as DIY info if you want to make a volume pedal yourself. It's just one pot and two TS Jacks.

Here's the copy and paste of schematic from the article linked in the video

Should you buy one, then? Well, why not? If it helps you get the tone you like, and as long as you know what you’re buying – that it isn’t anything magic, and that it won’t let you run the power amp any hotter than you’d normally do – have at it. And at the prices they usually go for on eBay, it’s hardly worth building your own – the parts alone (when bought in singles) can easily cost as much.

But if you want to build your own, all you need is a box, two jacks and a potentiometer. I’d probably use a 25K audio/log pot, but I’ve seen 100K pots used too. Here’s the wiring diagram:

And video that demonstrates it here

 

[Antmax]

BTW I also discovered that most FX loops are line in but some pedals are instrument out only, not line out which results in some brands and particular models of pedals not playing nice in the FX loop which can result in a volume drop.

I guess some pedals are only designed to go in front and be used with the the amp input only.

There's been quite a bit of discussion in various forums about FX loops making amps quieter with some pedals than others with some specific brands that do it.

 

[guitarman3001]

BTW I also discovered that most FX loops are line in but some pedals are instrument out only not line out which results in some brands and particular models of pedals not playing nice in the FX loop which can result in a volume drop.

I guess some pedals are only designed to go in front and be used with the the amp input only.

A whole other rabbit hole to go down but I also found a solution for that on pretty much any amp. A Hotone Fat Buffer as the last pedal in your loop fixes that perfectly. It's a buffer and also has a level control to bring the volume level back up, and tone controls to restore any lost highs or lows. It can also serve as a volume boost for leads.

 

[Antmax]

A whole other rabbit hole to go down but I also found a solution for that on pretty much any amp. A Hotone Fat Buffer as the last pedal in your loop fixes that perfectly. It's a buffer and also has a level control to bring the volume level back up, and tone controls to restore any lost highs or lows. It can also serve as a volume boost for leads.

That's cool, the Hotone is pretty inexpensive as far as pedals go too.

 

[Michael Roe]

Marshall wouldnt tell me. All they said was that it needs a "factory update" which fixes both the loop and the emulated out.

Hey, when you got one that was finally right, did it sound any different?

 

[guitarman3001]

Hey, when you got one that was finally right, did it sound any different?

I don't think so. The only things that changed were the volume controls now work through the headphone out and the fx loop works as it should when using a clean boost in it to increase volume during solos.

The tone seems pretty much the same.

 

[Antmax]

Made my volume pedal to choke the FX Loop today. I followed the video instructions rather than the wiring diagram, that worked properly. Had a couple of old guitar jacks, knob and a plastic project box so I only needed to buy the 25k pot which was $7 2 day shipping from amazon. Probably could have gotten it for $2 if I ordered one from China. Works fine and doesn't look terrible either.

 

[scozz]

I've had a few amps that do this. I could be wrong but if I remember right, the Mesa ROV25 does it but not to this extent. A lot of amps have a little bit of high end fizz bleed through on the distortion channel when the channel volume is at zero.

Does the fizz still bleed thru with the gain knob all the way fown?

 

[Humanoid]

Buy a cheap VU meter, wire a 1/4" female connector and level your input whenever you make changes to your signal chain (pedal gains/volume, EQ, etc). Most fizz comes from over driving the input to your preamp.
* You can hear the effect in the OP's video as his recording device was being over-driven and distorted.

Most distortion, fizz, etc is nothing more than an over-driven input that creates clipping or saturation. Controlling the input level is key! Most of the time, when people make adjustments to the input signal through pedals, volume controls, etc, they are unaware that they have inadvertently increased the input level to the point of clipping, creating "unwanted" distortion or noise.

Here's a good article regarding the importance of the input level...
http://www.ovnilab.com/articles/linelevel.shtml

 

[Jon C]

Red Channel Treble Bleed Capacitor Value Change at different Volume Levels …… Love my 40C…… at any volume