Holy Grail Reverb in front of a 1987x 50 watter with no effects loop

[andylaughs]

This might be a bit overcomplicated and totally expensive, but you can get the absolute clearest, non-noisy reverb out there that won't feed back, even with saturated distortion. Mojotone makes a standalone unit similar to the old Fender unit, except it goes between your speaker out and cabinet (s). If you're a full stacker, you can run it to just one cab for a wet/dry mix.

 

[ynot]

Here's what I've been doing lately & it works for me.I set the amp right before breakup so it's still pretty clean(ish) & use an od set more as a boost into reverb/delay.Granted I'm not going for over the top distortion nor am I going gonzo w/ the fx,verb/delay levels set pretty low.The thing about these amps is they push into overdrive very easily so your not really getting dirt solely from the pedal but using it to push the preamp (much like a gain on a master volume amp).I use a MXR Classic OD which from what I understand is based on a SD-1 but has an internal switch that gives you more boost.So they way I see it,the pedal is actually being used to do 3 things:boost the preamp of the amp into overdrive,EQ out the flubbiness, & depending how high you set it's gain - giving the amp a slight bit of dirt to "grab on to".The reverb & delay levels are not loud enough to overdrive the amp's input so still sound fine,if anything they sit behind your playing a little more & tend to get in the way of it less while your playing with the OD pedal on which I prefer anyway.

 

[jcm800gridlock]

I also use a Holy Grail in front of my old JCM800 without an effects loop. I have gotten pretty good results upfront but you have to keep the pedal’s settings low or it just does not sound right. I tried a couple of reverb pedals with this amp and ended up with the Holy Grail because of its tone and ease of use (1 knob and a switch).

Doug

 

[dptone5]

I use a Mr. Springgy (by Lee Jackson) in front of my JMP 2204. I know it's not ideal, but it sounds really good to my ears. I had a Holy Grail, but liked the authentic spring reverb sound of Mr. Springgy. Check out some sound clips on line.

For me, the Mr. Springgy retained my guitar's tone and didn't sound digital.

 

[Roundhouse]

I have a Holy Grail and in front of my 2104 it doesnt sound to good. Clean it sounds ok at least.

 

[indeedido]

The Holy Grail will sound ok till the amp starts to distort when is it plugged into the front end and the more it distorts the more the Reveb effect gets lost. Now through the FX-Loop it would be bufferd so it would retain the continuity of the Reverb and not get lost.

But if you want an FX-loop and reverb... just get an amp that suits your needs. Most guys that Buy 1987 are purest looking for that "four Holer" sound and dont use much for FX's.

Necro post I know...With the reissue 1987X having an effects loop, would a reverb pedal still sound good in it? Does the power tube distortion not play too much of a role in overpowering the reverb even in the loop?

 

[ynot]

It'll sound good even without a loop as long as you have a way of controlling the level of it for clean vs dirty (& don't feed it into the cranked channel) as it's not a channel switching amp.So even with the loop I imagine you'll need some sort of level control/presets for it because your cleans are coming from rolling back your guitar's volume.IOW,you don't have different "send levels" on your fx loop for a clean channel & a dirty one.

 

[johnfv]

The more gain you have your amp set for, the more you want time based fx (delay and reverb) in the loop (in other words after the gain/distortion). Delay and verb sound fine in front of a clean amp but as you add gain the amp will distort and compress those fx altering the dry/wet balance and generally making them sound bad. I don't mind using delay in front of a "mid gain" amp but personally would not use verb in front of anything other than a clean setting.

 

[indeedido]

I agree. I didn't have effects with my old plexi I sold a while back, but am going to get another one, one of the reissues. So I'm curious as to how the effects loop handles time based effects like reverb and flanger. My understanding is that get the distortion from the power amp. If that is the case, wouldn't a loop be useless since it is before the power tubes? I have to think not since many add a loop but I'd like to hear from someone with the experience.

 

[ynot]

I agree. I didn't have effects with my old plexi I sold a while back, but am going to get another one, one of the reissues. So I'm curious as to how the effects loop handles time based effects like reverb and flanger. My understanding is that get the distortion from the power amp. If that is the case, wouldn't a loop be useless since it is before the power tubes? I have to think not since many add a loop but I'd like to hear from someone with the experience.

The reverb level won't be loud enough to distort...unless your going absolutely ape shit with it.At any sane level it'll be fine.With or without a loop it can be done & sounds fine.Listen to the YJM demos,sounds fine to me.My amp doesn't have the loop so I use it between the channels with a volume pedal before it to set different wet levels,and it works & sounds fine that way too.Read these two threads for more info/explanations:

http://www.marshallforum.com/marshall-amps/26934-yjm-100-questions.html

http://www.marshallforum.com/marshall-amps/27526-poweramp-distortion-effects.html

 

[Spirit of 76]

Can this method of running the reverb in the channel jump between the btm left channel and the top right channel work for a multi effects unit like the Line 6 M9?

 

[ynot]

I'd like to say yes, but it works for me,take that for what it's worth.To my ears,I don't need an fx loop.A loop is ideal theoretically l,but I don't feel I need it.I don't have any line 6 gear specifically though.

 

[surfguy13]

I shoulda read this post before posting a question about rverb pedals units this afternoon!!
From reading all the posts it seems to me that the mojotone is a good alternative to the fender unit?
I used an old fender reverb tank for years but then got rid of it a long time ago. It was great for clean but was a nightmare to use when driving the amp - it was possible to get a really nice tone using very little reverb but it's very much a black art and I never got my head round it. I just couldn't use it when the amp was driving hard.
I'm currently using an old '67 SL 100 and my post today was simply asking for advice about reverb pedal/unit option for using in front of it. Use a 1960AX.
Mostly want to use it for clean sounds - any suggestions? Holy Grail sounds OK?

 

[SmokeyDopey]

You have to keep in mind, that you are hearing recording studio reverb on most of these recordings.

Another option is to still use the reverb pedal but use a good Dirt pedal before/in front of the reverb and keep the amp somewhat clean - getting most of the grind from the Dirt pedal. I do this with my 2204/4010 amps going into the Low input jack.

Like RickyLee said.
If you want to do it vintage style, you have to mic up the amp, and after its mic'd, you add this:

And that signal would go to the PA.
But you never really see that on stage....

Reverb into an overdriven amp sounds horrible, its an overdriven reverb, it gets way too loud along with the distorted guitar.
A short delay (slapback) works fine into an overdriven amp, in fact, I prefer the slapback delay IN FRONT of the amp, but if its reverb or a longer delay, it just has to go through the effects loop (or like mentioned before, mic'd amp, and add FX to that signal for the PA).

 

[AndyK11]

What I do is use a Dry/Wet setup. I bought a Suhr Line Out converter box that gets plugged into the amp speaker out. That goes to the reverb, which then goes into a SECOND CLEAN AMP's FX return. Set volume on the second amp to taste, and you have a killer stock Marshall on the left, and reverb (or any FX) on the right.

Any clean combo will also work, assuming you don't want to get too loud. I have my Trademark TM10 combo next to my Marshall cab, and it works great at home!

 

[GreaserMatt]

I am in the middle of the decision of purchasing a Holy Grail reverb pedal to be used on a Marshall 1987x reissue with no effects loop. I really like the plate and spring vintage reverb sound.

Should i leave my amp stock with no effects loop and place the EH Holy Grail in front?

yes

 

[Henkie]

It's a reissue anyway, so I would not expect it's value to drop significantly by a professionally added loop. Just do it, and you won't have to worry about pitting effects in the wrong place or relying on pedals instead of the amp for distortion to work around it etcetera...