I think I used a simple boost in front of gained up amp (SC20h) successfully

[batfish]

Hi All,

I played a show this past weekend. I don't play many shows and am inexperienced, still on learning curve. I played my SC20h and had just an overdrive (BOSS SD-1) and tuner on my board. Fairly dense mix with 2 guitars playing rock.

I ran the amp with pre-amp on about 5 and master volume on about 3 (small venue). I was mic'd. I played 90% of the show with my guitar (Les Paul) volume on '7'. For solos, I just turned up all the way and stomped on the SD-1.

From the stage I didn't really feel like I was getting much of a boost and assumed I was not cutting through. However, listening to a recording from the room, my solos were very audible. That said the recording was taken from my side of the stage so that should be a factor.

I've read lots of threads about not getting enough of a boost if running into the front end of an amp that's already in overdrive and I had this FUD going into the show, but the room recording makes me feel like this could actually be a viable option.

Does anyone else just boost the front of a dirty amp successfully or should I assume the recording was just getting beamed by my guitar? Maybe the combination of turning down volume (it was still in crunch mode even rolled back to 7) and the fact that the amp wasn't out of headroom made this viable? Oh, people in the room said they could hear me just fine.

If this method is a proven method and folks more experienced with me can affirm it's viable than I'll just go with this strategy from now on and not worry about a boost in effects loop or an attentuator, etc.

Thanks

 

[junk notes]

I played a show this past weekend.

Everybody knows I really like hearing about when our MF members have played out, GJ!

Well, on the Marshall website -captures the spirit of the JCM800 range at a smaller size.
Why 4010s 2203s and 2204s eat Ibanez Tube Screamers and Boss overdrives (like your SD-1) for lunch!
Yes, ride that volume knob as long as you have the amp all gained up where you like it and - control that beast!

 

[Maxbrothman]

Hi All,

I played a show this past weekend. I don't play many shows and am inexperienced, still on learning curve. I played my SC20h and had just an overdrive (BOSS SD-1) and tuner on my board. Fairly dense mix with 2 guitars playing rock.

I ran the amp with pre-amp on about 5 and master volume on about 3 (small venue). I was mic'd. I played 90% of the show with my guitar (Les Paul) volume on '7'. For solos, I just turned up all the way and stomped on the SD-1.

From the stage I didn't really feel like I was getting much of a boost and assumed I was not cutting through. However, listening to a recording from the room, my solos were very audible. That said the recording was taken from my side of the stage so that should be a factor.

I've read lots of threads about not getting enough of a boost if running into the front end of an amp that's already in overdrive and I had this FUD going into the show, but the room recording makes me feel like this could actually be a viable option.

Does anyone else just boost the front of a dirty amp successfully or should I assume the recording was just getting beamed by my guitar? Maybe the combination of turning down volume (it was still in crunch mode even rolled back to 7) and the fact that the amp wasn't out of headroom made this viable? Oh, people in the room said they could hear me just fine.

If this method is a proven method and folks more experienced with me can affirm it's viable than I'll just go with this strategy from now on and not worry about a boost in effects loop or an attentuator, etc.

Thanks

SC20h has a lot of mid-range and cuts through quite well hence why the JCM800 is a popular choice to see at live gigs. You can use volume, boost, or sometimes nothing at all and just direct to amp. The problem usually comes from scooping the mid-range for the metal sound at home. That won't work in a live situation as the mids are your sonic pathway for electric guitar. Drums, bass and vocals flood the low and high end.

 

[paul-e-mann]

Hi All,

I played a show this past weekend. I don't play many shows and am inexperienced, still on learning curve. I played my SC20h and had just an overdrive (BOSS SD-1) and tuner on my board. Fairly dense mix with 2 guitars playing rock.

I ran the amp with pre-amp on about 5 and master volume on about 3 (small venue). I was mic'd. I played 90% of the show with my guitar (Les Paul) volume on '7'. For solos, I just turned up all the way and stomped on the SD-1.

From the stage I didn't really feel like I was getting much of a boost and assumed I was not cutting through. However, listening to a recording from the room, my solos were very audible. That said the recording was taken from my side of the stage so that should be a factor.

I've read lots of threads about not getting enough of a boost if running into the front end of an amp that's already in overdrive and I had this FUD going into the show, but the room recording makes me feel like this could actually be a viable option.

Does anyone else just boost the front of a dirty amp successfully or should I assume the recording was just getting beamed by my guitar? Maybe the combination of turning down volume (it was still in crunch mode even rolled back to 7) and the fact that the amp wasn't out of headroom made this viable? Oh, people in the room said they could hear me just fine.

If this method is a proven method and folks more experienced with me can affirm it's viable than I'll just go with this strategy from now on and not worry about a boost in effects loop or an attentuator, etc.

Thanks

Youre doing it right, the only way to get lead volume boost on a gained up amp is with guitar volume rolled back first then dial it up for lead. It would also be helpful if your second guitarist rolled his volume down a bit while you do your solo so you can really punch through. It might be helpful next time you gig if someone records the band center and rear of the venue then you'll know for sure how you sound. I'm not good at rolling guitar knobs on the fly so I like to use a boost in the loop for volume.

 

[Dean Swindell]

For years I've wondered how the ART tube MP mic pre would work in front of a guitar amp. Anybody try it? I also wondered if it would help a solid state amp in the fx loop. Anybody?

 

[TheSaz]

I too have the SC20H, i havent really used it shows, but I have used it in a mix jamming with people(hardcore punkish). I run mine with just a 15ft cable, Gibson Sg(490t/r) to a DSL combo(using it as a cabinet) with a V30. I get all the crunch I need with the preamp at 2 o clock, suites me just fine.

What type of genre do you play that would require more gain? Metal? Tell us about your setup n gear. If you'd want MORE boost but not to add OD, check out Earthquaker Tone Job. You'll get a boost and an EQ

Tone Job EQ & Boost — EarthQuaker Devices

Compact Boost & EQ pedal based around the tone-shaping options available in old audiophile-grade stereo preamps

www.earthquakerdevices.com

 

[79 2203]

I’ve not played a SC20 but on my 4104’s, 2203’s, 1987, 2061, 1959’s and 1992 I’ve always set the amp for AC/DC-ish crunch with the guitar(LP/SG)volume up full(or close to it) and I’ve always had enough headroom to boost for solos.
On a MV Marshall the Preamp is usually around noon and with a NMV the volume is slightly higher.
As long as the rest of the band aren’t drowning you out and as long as you don’t dial your tone in too dark or scooped, you really don’t need too much of a volume boost for solos.

 

[Maggot Brain]

This is exactly why using the volume knobs on guitar is so important, not only for the guitarist who is soloing but also the rhythm. I've played with guys, even fairly experienced guys, that don't quite utilize this technique. I'd say a lot of the guys around my age who I've played with, rely on pedals or channel switching for boosting their guitar above a rhythm guitarist who has his guitar volume on 10 or have FOH control the volumes with the PA... I rarely see guys utilize the volume OR tone knobs on the guitar... Seems like a technique that's being lost on many.

The best sounding mixes I've played in or have witnessed were utilizing guitar volume control. Turn your amp up to the max volume you want to boost with, adjust the gain as to where your rolled off level is where you want to be 90% of the time and roll up the volume for leads or dynamics. Rolling up the volume on the lead guitar while the rhythm guitarist rolls his volume down can really make or break a mix IMO.

Idk but that's the old school way and it works. I'm sure it won't be as effective for all genres (maybe not best for high gain metal).

Setting a pedal with a nice loud output could help too but I personally find riding the volume knob the most effective.

 

[Seven]

Hi All,

I played a show this past weekend. I don't play many shows and am inexperienced, still on learning curve. I played my SC20h and had just an overdrive (BOSS SD-1) and tuner on my board. Fairly dense mix with 2 guitars playing rock.

I ran the amp with pre-amp on about 5 and master volume on about 3 (small venue). I was mic'd. I played 90% of the show with my guitar (Les Paul) volume on '7'. For solos, I just turned up all the way and stomped on the SD-1.

From the stage I didn't really feel like I was getting much of a boost and assumed I was not cutting through. However, listening to a recording from the room, my solos were very audible. That said the recording was taken from my side of the stage so that should be a factor.

I've read lots of threads about not getting enough of a boost if running into the front end of an amp that's already in overdrive and I had this FUD going into the show, but the room recording makes me feel like this could actually be a viable option.

Does anyone else just boost the front of a dirty amp successfully or should I assume the recording was just getting beamed by my guitar? Maybe the combination of turning down volume (it was still in crunch mode even rolled back to 7) and the fact that the amp wasn't out of headroom made this viable? Oh, people in the room said they could hear me just fine.

If this method is a proven method and folks more experienced with me can affirm it's viable than I'll just go with this strategy from now on and not worry about a boost in effects loop or an attentuator, etc.

Thanks

First, not all boost pedals are created equal. Some are clean and only boost the decibel level (volume boost) and others color the signal, some with a bit of gain, eq, etc. I prefer some with a touch of color and gain. Some of these boosts or echoplex type clone 'pre" pedals also add a bit of girth to the tone, which is nice for fatter/fuller lead tone.

If you find the right pedal, they have a tendency to become an 'always on' pedal. Set and forget.

Not all lead tones need to cut off someone's head on the dance floor. Thin doesn't always win in my experience either. Too much gain can also thin out the projected tone. It might sound great and full on stage, but it might not cut thru the mix.

I did read thru the other comments and generally agree that 'riding the guitar volume' is a skill worth developing and is something I use, but I also remember my first few live gigs (many moons ago) and fiddling with the guitar volume wasn't a priority, especially for bar/pub rock. I was lucky to always be the lone guitarist and didn't have to deal with other guitar players so take that into account.

Expecting a second guitarist to turn down during a solo is probably asking too much, but is still something a band should build into their rehearsal.

Learning dynamics and professionalism takes time. Just blasting away is the norm for young bands, but the audience will quickly become fatigued. Not everyone likes a loud screaming rock and roll guitar, especially over the past few years of pop music proliferation.

My point is this: A pedal is a simple solution in a live setting. Leave yourself a little bit on the guitar volume, because inevitably the band gets louder as the night goes on and use it judiciously for leads, but ease off after the lead. Sound engineers frown upon guitarists sandbagging during sound check so be forewarned. If the they turn you up at the mixing board, that's on them. They can also turn you down and you will never know it unless someone tells you. You're up on stage playing rock star the audience can't hear you because you didn't play nice with the sound guy. It's a shitty reality. If the sound guy works for the band, they should have been at rehearsal to learn the set list, quirks, etc. Most bars have their own sound guy who usually has an attitude about bands. Some are great, but I digress.

Here's a few other thoughts: Most live rooms suck for sound, especially as the crowd fills up the space. People are like acoustic absorbers and rock bands tend to turn up the stage volume to compensate for the density. As a crowd gets louder and more rowdy from intoxication, the band will turn up the volume to compensate. It happens, so resist the urge and let the PA do the heavy lifting.

Lastly, learn the concept of gain staging with pedals, but don't over do it. Too many pedals ruin the tone soup. At that point, buffers are your friend. Also learn to angle the amp/cabinet. Tilting a combo amp also works, especially when the stage has the speaker pointed right at someone's face.

Rock on and enjoy the experience. There's nothing like playing live !

 

[V-man]

Style of music/play factors significantly.

you played at sub-max guitar volume, with a very modest amount of gain on the input knob. Kicking in a boost and rolling up Guitar volume should have a significant affect on the character of your output.

The problem comes when one plays heavy music in a 2-guitar band where something like an 800 is set to 8-10 on the gain and boost-saturated just for a heavy rhythm tone alone. Without an FX loop or other post loop to manipulate w an EQ, there is more or less nowhere to go, and the “boost“ has as much to do with carving out certain frequencies to cut through the mix.