Iron Man Mini II + SV20h question

[Shane Stevenson]

Recently I started a thread about boosting an SV for solos. I got lots of great suggestions and was actually able to try a few.

I’m loving this amp and I can’t stop playing it. I had band practice tonight and everything was perfect EXCEPT for when I went into solos. It’s a three piece band and I want my solos to jump out and be louder than what my ts808 or even my mini spark boost are capable of doing with a wound up plexi. The obvious problem is that I’m just about out of headroom with both volumes set at 6 and jumped. No boost or OD pedal that I’m aware of will fix this.

I’m using the mini mass 50 and it’s great, but I’m willing to give the Tone King Iron Man II Mini a try because of the solo boost stomp function. It’s only rated for 30 watt amps. That worries me a little because we all know that the SV feels like more than 20 watts.

It seems to me that the Iron Man mini is my last hope. Can this thing really give me the elevated solo volume that boost pedals, OD pedals, or EQ pedals can’t? Is it even safe to use with the SV?

 

[TheKman76]

You've sort of backed yourself into a tonal corner here. Iron Man II is essentially a fixed boost, is that really enough?

Left field suggestion, set the wide-open level for solos and use your 'boost' in the front to cut level for everything else. A treble booster with a little drive on it but less than unity gain may be worth a try, assuming you have access to one. You simply turn off the 'boost' for solos. Can be used in the loop too depending on what you're trying to achieve.

 

[79 2203]

I’m surprised you can’t get some volume when boosting a 20 watt Plexi on 6. I’ve not played a SV20, but vol 6 on every Plexi style amp ive played is medium crunch with humbuckers.

 

[Shane Stevenson]

I’m surprised you can’t get some volume when boosting a 20 watt Plexi on 6. I’ve not played a SV20, but vol 6 on every Plexi style amp ive played is medium crunch with humbuckers.

I’m getting some extra volume, just not enough. I was able to hear my solo with the band, I wasn't completely covered up. I just wanted the solos to be a little bigger…like when I’m using a clean amp with headroom and then punch an OD pedal or something for a solo.

One thing I haven’t tried is an SD-1 and I don’t know why. It’s the cheapest suggestion for a possible fix. I found one for $45 last night and bought it.

I’m also wondering about an ABY pedal and just mixing in another amp for solos only. I’ll figure something out. Regardless of my problems, this has to be the funnest amp I have ever used for band practice.

 

[FleshOnGear]

I’m getting some extra volume, just not enough. I was able to hear my solo with the band, I wasn't completely covered up. I just wanted the solos to be a little bigger…like when I’m using a clean amp with headroom and then punch an OD pedal or something for a solo.

One thing I haven’t tried is an SD-1 and I don’t know why. It’s the cheapest suggestion for a possible fix. I found one for $45 last night and bought it.

I’m also wondering about an ABY pedal and just mixing in another amp for solos only. I’ll figure something out. Regardless of my problems, this has to be the funnest amp I have ever used for band practice.

Dude, I know it’s a major investment, way beyond what you’re hoping to lay out, but you need to seriously consider a Power Station PS100.

1) it has footswitchable channels so you can set one to the perfect solo volume and EQ, and the other to a quieter rhythm tone.
2) it offers 100 watts of tube power, so you can actually play LOUDER if you need to.
3) it has a post power amp distortion effects loop, so your effects are super clean

It has even more features, but those three are the big benefits. It’s an amazing piece of gear. Trust me, no pedal in front of the amp is going to give you enough volume, and probably nothing in the SV20’s loop will do it, either. Good luck to you.

 

[Shane Stevenson]

I’ve seen lots of Fryette suggestions. Just a couple of questions…I don’t see a footswitch input. This is crucial for me in a band situation. I mean, I know it has to have a footswitch that can plug into the unit at that price.

The other question I have is what about the PS-2A? It’s about $400 cheaper. Will it do what I need it to do? I don’t care about much else other than having two good levels of loud for rhythm and strong lead.

 

[FleshOnGear]

I’ve seen lots of Fryette suggestions. Just a couple of questions…I don’t see a footswitch input. This is crucial for me in a band situation. I mean, I know it has to have a footswitch that can plug into the unit at that price.

The other question I have is what about the PS-2A? It’s about $400 cheaper. Will it do what I need it to do? I don’t care about much else other than having two good levels of loud for rhythm and strong lead.

I got my PS100 for only $100 more than the PS2A, but it looks like prices might’ve jumped. The PS100 is the only one that will give you a solo boost as part of its built in features. It does have a footswitch jack. However, you can put a boost in the loop of the PS2A for a boost. That just makes the rig a little more complicated.

 

[Shane Stevenson]

Why is this talk forum so expensive lol! Maybe I need to try the PS100. I’ve been watching demos. It looks fairly simple and extremely easy to use. This amp is a keeper so I need to take care of business. Thanks FleshOnGear!

 

[FleshOnGear]

Why is this talk forum so expensive lol! Maybe I need to try the PS100. I’ve been watching demos. It looks fairly simple and extremely easy to use. This amp is a keeper so I need to take care of business. Thanks FleshOnGear!

Don’t thank me until you have one in hand. I was just double checking prices, and it looks to be backordered most places. I ordered mine while it was on backorder, and I think it took about 2-3 months to ship. It’s hard to remember.

Anyway, if you can find a used one, that would probably work to your benefit. Good luck!

 

[JohnH]

If you're willing to tackle a project, our M2 and M4 attenuators in the Workbench section can have a passive external footswitch accessed by a jack. Basically an extra attenuation stage built into the footswitch which is switched in or out to make the volume change. The footswitch system is shown on the M4 design, linked from page 1. M4 is a series of mostly independent add on 'Bells and Whistles' to the basic M2.

The footswitch has been built a few times by others. Most seem to find that a -3.5dB step is about right. But with different values, any change could be adopted.

One thing about a passive footswitch on any passive attenuator though: I don't think it's good to be switching on the fly from full amp volume down to a lower level. Too many transients can be created switching the full amp signal which could be bad for the amp. So footswitching should be between two attenuated settings so thst there is some constant steady load on the amp. Ironman attenuators have this issue too BTW.

Compared to full 20W max volume, how loud do you run the amp for a solo?

Unless you have a feel for what different dB attenuation steps sound like, it can be hard to know. But with the Studios, there's a simple check. Let's say you'll actually run the amp at 20W into an attenuator. If as a test, you run the amp at 5W without attenuator, is that loud enough for your solo? That'd be -6dB attenuation off 20W.

 

[Shane Stevenson]

If you're willing to tackle a project, our M2 and M4 attenuators in the Workbench section can have a passive external footswitch accessed by a jack. Basically an extra attenuation stage built into the footswitch which is switched in or out to make the volume change. The footswitch system is shown on the M4 design, linked from page 1. M4 is a series of mostly independent add on 'Bells and Whistles' to the basic M2.

The footswitch has been built a few times by others. Most seem to find that a -3.5dB step is about right. But with different values, any change could be adopted.

One thing about a passive footswitch on any passive attenuator though: I don't think it's good to be switching on the fly from full amp volume down to a lower level. Too many transients can be created switching the full amp signal which could be bad for the amp. So footswitching should be between two attenuated settings so thst there is some constant steady load on the amp. Ironman attenuators have this issue too BTW.

Compared to full 20W max volume, how loud do you run the amp for a solo?

Unless you have a feel for what different dB attenuation steps sound like, it can be hard to know. But with the Studios, there's a simple check. Let's say you'll actually run the amp at 20W into an attenuator. If as a test, you run the amp at 5W without attenuator, is that loud enough for your solo? That'd be -6dB attenuation off 20W.

I’ve heard a lot about you from this forum. I’m gonna listen to what you have to say. I guess the only thing that concerns me is using a footswitch on the fly like I really need to do. This actually concerned me while researching the ps100 as well. I’m not gonna rule any option out though. To answer your question about enough db between 20 and 5 watts…yes I think that would be enough.

Even with the Fryette, or any other attenuating device, I don’t think I could use a footswitch when the device turned off. There are a few times where 20 watts is perfect but I would still need a solo boost after that. If that makes sense lol.

my plan was to buy a metropoulus supa boost because those pedals are built differently than other boost pedals. Just my luck, a person can’t buy a supa boost at the moment. New or used, I’ll take anything. There’s one available and it’s like $540 from out of country on Reverb. I don’t like making over seas purchases but I’m a weirdo.

So John, do you have a website?

 

[JohnH]

hi @Shane Stevenson

Thanks, I dont have a website though, Im just an amateur!

Just wanted to clarify.
Its a 20W amp, and if you need it at full volume , not attenuated, for your loudest sound, then I dont think a passive attenuator is the right thing if you need to switch down on the fly, to get your lower-volume rhythm sound. If however, the loudest sound you need is equivalent to like 4 or 8 watts. and you reduce from there then it could work

If you want to play full-volume solos at 20W, then I reckon a good option could be a drive pedal with an amp-like 'plexi' flavour, and set it to less than x1 gain for your rythym. So when you engage it, it gets a bit quieter, and some of the missing power-stage drive tone is replaced by the pedal. Out of my handful of pedals, that could be maybe a Boss OD3?.

 

[speyfly]

I think this will solve your problem and give a great deal of versatility. I know I love mine with all my amps including the Studio Vintage 20H

Source Audio EQ2

"Besides offering top-drawer sound shaping, the EQ2 Programmable Equalizer also offers up to 12dB of clean boost. This transparent volume bump is a great way to increase your volume for solos or goose the front end of your amp for natural breakup."

 

[TheKman76]

If you want to play full-volume solos at 20W, then I reckon a good option could be a drive pedal with an amp-like 'plexi' flavour, and set it to less than x1 gain for your rythym. So when you engage it, it gets a bit quieter, and some of the missing power-stage drive tone is replaced by the pedal. Out of my handful of pedals, that could be maybe a Boss OD3?.

John said it better than me, but that's also what I was getting at.

 

[What?]

I think this will solve your problem and give a great deal of versatility. I know I love mine with all my amps including the Studio Vintage 20H

Source Audio EQ2

"Besides offering top-drawer sound shaping, the EQ2 Programmable Equalizer also offers up to 12dB of clean boost. This transparent volume bump is a great way to increase your volume for solos or goose the front end of your amp for natural breakup."

I have one too, and I'm really not a fan of the one knob interface. And if you're only using it as a clean boost or as a clean boost with some eq control, there are less expensive options that don't have a bad interface. The Fender Engager is one option. That aside, he is already out of headroom, so a clean boost isn't going to be helpful for a volume increase for solos. As JohnH pointed out, what might help is going the opposite way. Get as much volume out of the amp as he can for his solo sound, then use an overdrive pedal to knock the volume down and to add some lost gain back for the rhythm sound. Another option is to do it old school, really turning the amp up, rolling back the guitar volume control for rhythm, and rolling it up for a boost, which definitely takes some getting used to.

 

[speyfly]

I have one too, and I'm really not a fan of the one knob interface. And if you're only using it as a clean boost or as a clean boost with some eq control, there are less expensive options that don't have a bad interface. The Fender Engager is one option. That aside, he is already out of headroom, so a clean boost isn't going to be helpful for a volume increase for solos. As JohnH pointed out, what might help is going the opposite way. Get as much volume out of the amp as he can for his solo sound, then use an overdrive pedal to knock the volume down and to add some lost gain back for the rhythm sound. Another option is to do it old school, really turning the amp up, rolling back the guitar volume control for rhythm, and rolling it up for a boost, which definitely takes some getting used to.

For me the EQ2 and its programmable presets makes it easy to dial in and a more versatile pedal, a set and forget pedal eliminating the constant tweaking. I too have the Engager Boost (great pedal) and with the Origin amp, it shines but I would not use it with the SV.

he is already out of headroom,

Yes, if you have the SV20 cranked and attenuated at the same time you will have limited headroom. Loose the attenuator roll back the amps volume and use the EQ2 to boost the signal and by all means, use the guitars gain controls. OD pedals used to roll back the volume or gain usually adds unwanted color and weird overtones. The SV is not what I would call a pedal platform and can get a little wonky quickly adding OD's.

 

[What?]

For me the EQ2 and its programmable presets makes it easy to dial in and a more versatile pedal, a set and forget pedal eliminating the constant tweaking. I too have the Engager Boost (great pedal) and with the Origin amp, it shines but I would not use it with the SV.



Yes, if you have the SV20 cranked and attenuated at the same time you will have limited headroom. Loose the attenuator roll back the amps volume and use the EQ2 to boost the signal and by all means, use the guitars gain controls. OD pedals used to roll back the volume or gain usually adds unwanted color and weird overtones. The SV is not what I would call a pedal platform and can get a little wonky quickly adding OD's.

The issue with EQ2 is dialing it in without a computer being connected. No one wants to have a computer connected to a pedal to adjust it. That's a big red flag for bad interface. Dialing in a preset can be fine for setting up a boost, but when I want to fix something on the fly or create a preset from the pedal, the one knob interface is horrible.

Why would you not use the Engager with the SV20? I have used it with my 1987 clone and other amps, and it's fine for any amp where you might need a clean boost with some eq adjustment. And it's very easy to adjust on the fly, the same as any other sensibly designed pedal.

 

[speyfly]

Shane, didn't mean to hi-jack your great thread, my apologies.

Maybe I'm missing something "a computer being connected" to utilize the ON-BOARD pre-sets, that's just not the case. And performance compared to the Engager, while the Engager is a really sweet pedal and I use it all the time with a Friedman JJ Jr, Origin 20 and others, the tone when into the front of the SV is not to my liking. I got the SV to reproduce classic early 60's-70's hard rock blues Marshall tones and that's exactly what is does. I've tried the SV with so many pedals and configurations, for me the SV with nothing more than a very clear clean boost in the front and a little verb and delay via a Caverns in the loop, it works. Channel 1 and 2 around 4 give or take, eq- bass @ 3, mids @ 7 treb @ 5, presence @ 5ish and of course, jumper'd from low 1 to high 2.

I think there is no sweeter vintage tone imho and of coarse you need to factor in the speakers and cabs. room and the like.

Attenuation when I don't want the neighbors to complain after 10PM.

 

[Shane Stevenson]

Shane, didn't mean to hi-jack your great thread, my apologies.

Maybe I'm missing something "a computer being connected" to utilize the ON-BOARD pre-sets, that's just not the case. And performance compared to the Engager, while the Engager is a really sweet pedal and I use it all the time with a Friedman JJ Jr, Origin 20 and others, the tone when into the front of the SV is not to my liking. I got the SV to reproduce classic early 60's-70's hard rock blues Marshall tones and that's exactly what is does. I've tried the SV with so many pedals and configurations, for me the SV with nothing more than a very clear clean boost in the front and a little verb and delay via a Caverns in the loop, it works. Channel 1 and 2 around 4 give or take, eq- bass @ 3, mids @ 7 treb @ 5, presence @ 5ish and of course, jumper'd from low 1 to high 2.

I think there is no sweeter vintage tone imho and of coarse you need to factor in the speakers and cabs. room and the like.

Attenuation when I don't want the neighbors to complain after 10PM.

No worries about hijacking a post! I’m like you when it comes to the SV. I don’t like a lot of pedals and I also use the caverns. I use the reverb side with shimmer for about two songs with my guitar volume cleaning up the amp. I am curious though, what clean boost do you like? I’m putting together a new pedal board and I’ll have a tuner, one OD that I haven’t decided on yet and that will most likely seldomly get used, my Keeley Cavrens, a wah, and either an EQ or clean boost.

As for my original issue and the reason I started this thread, I think I’m going to get an attenuator with a solo boost function. Probably the Iron Man II. That unit allows for actual volume, either +3db or +6db. Surely +6db will be enough if not too much. I have come to the conclusion that I’m about out of real headroom with the volume settings I use and that no pedal will give me true volume.

I guess that’s the thing with plexi amps. I not complaining, I just need to learn a new way of using my amp. In the past I would run all my amps semi clean allowing for the level function on my pedals to give me whatever volume I needed to be boosted. I’m learning that with plexi’s this doesn’t work out too well for me. It doesn’t matter if an advertised pedal boasts about having +26db on tap. Hopefully I’m on the right track here.

 

[speyfly]

Shane​

"I am curious though, what clean boost do you like? I’m putting together a new pedal board and I’ll have a tuner, one OD that I haven’t decided on yet and that will most likely seldomly get used, my Keeley Cavrens, a wah, and either an EQ or clean boost."

My favorite way to boost the SV's pre-amp section is the EQ2, so clean, no discernable tone coloration, love the set and forget pre-sets, variable gain, dual in and out's and so much more that I will probably never use, the best boost pedal for the SV that I've found. Another that I will always have on my board is the Engager Boost, awesome pedal with my Origin, JJ Jr and others.

I'm with you, no need for a overdrive with the SV unless you're looking for a different sound, I have other amps that play that role. Regarding the Ironman II, really good attenuator and I love the fact that I can run any of my amps with any of my cabs no matter what the ohm rating is and the boost is a nice add as well.