Is there a solution to DSL40CR midi switching?

[ampmadscientist]

Hi all, I got a 11/2017 Marshall DSL40CR used for a good price. I for the most part love the tones in this amp. The clean is great and the drives are generally classic Marshall. All good.

My problem is with midi switching via a HX Effects. I’ve been in touch with Marshall support and to their credit they have sent me 2 different midi modules, the problem is none of them work! I’ve been in back and forth for a month now and can’t make it work. I’m not new to midi and this is not user error. My issue is that I can’t get the MV1 and MV2 to switch at the same time that I switch from classic to Ultra gain. With the latest board that I was sent it finally works on the ultra channel. On the classic channel, it always recalls the last MV state instead of the CC value I send it. Has anyone else experienced this?

I have 4 snapshots setup in the preset, 1 is classic green and MV 1, 2 is classic green and MV2, 3 is ultra green and MV 1 and 4 is ultra green and MV 2. Basically looking for clean plus solo boost and dirt plus solo boost. When I switch between snapshot 1 and 2, it works as expected, just moving from MV 1 to 2 and back. Same with snapshots 3 and 4. The problem is if I go from snapshot 2 to 3, then to snapshot 1, the MV stays aligned to snapshot 2 instead of 1. I used to have the same problem with the ultra channel but the latest board they sent fixed that.

I’ve had radio silence from support for a few days now and I’m assuming it’s time to sell the amp and move on. I just really like the tones and I wish I could fine a way to have channel switching and MV switching work! Any insight from the experts is appreciated, thanks! Sorry for the novel!
Derek

You need to replace the programmable logic chip, which only the service center is going to the get parts for.
The proprietary software chip controls the midi and channel switching...

 

[KraftyBob]

So here's an example of one of my presets in HX Edit.
It is my Metallica preset. I use 2 snapshots. One "Clean" ,and the other "Distortion".
When I select the "Clean" snapshot it changes the DSL100hr to the Classic Gain chan/ Clean mode, and at the same time it switches the amp to Master Volume 2 (which I have a bit louder than Master 1).

Here are the MIDI commands I set in Command center for Clean. The 1st Instant Command changes channels, and must be a Bank/Program command. The second Instant Command is what switched the Master Volume, and must be a MIDI CC command with CC# 14
View attachment 59493
View attachment 59494


When I switch to the "Distortion" snapshot, the amp switches to the Classic Gain chan/ Crunch mode,(I stack another gain block with it, but you could switch to Ultra gain/Red or whatever).

And here are the MIDI commands for Distortion
View attachment 59495
View attachment 59496

Here are the commands I use

Classic Gain
Green=0
Red=9

Ultra Gain
Green=6
Red=3

Master Volume is MIDI CC w/CC# 14
0=Master Volume 1
2=Master Volume 2

I hope this helps

Being that you're using Snapshots is the channel switching to be pretty instant? I'm getting the Helix LT tomorrow and plan to first try using the Ext Amp control with a TRS cable. I have a DSL40C (not CR so no MIDI) which has a 2 Button footswitch to change the channel and turn reverb on/off. The foot switch uses a TRS cable so I'm trying test if the Ext Amp Control can be programmed to change both the channel and the reverb with the TRS cable too (separate foot switches).

I currently use the M13 and connect the MIDI out from that to a VooDoo Lab Control switcher. That converts the signal to a relay and from there I can change the channel and control reverb on my DSL when in Latch mode. The problem is there's a slight delay when changing channels - enough of a delay to throw off my timing mid-song. I've confirmed the problem is with the M13 and not the Control Switcher or amp.

If the TRS setup doesn't work for both channel and reverb with the Ext Amp control, I thought about trying the same setup (MIDI ---> Control Switcher ---> amp) with the Helix - which is why I was asking about any delay with the LT.

 

[deke99]

You need to replace the programmable logic chip, which only the service center is going to the get parts for.
The proprietary software chip controls the midi and channel switching...

I was in contact with Marshall Support and they sent me out 2 new midi logic boards which I installed in the amp. The first one was a wash (the Effects Loop switching no longer required off/on cycle on power up but effects loop switching didn't work where it did prior), and the second one almost worked. Everything worked properly with that board except the Classic channel MV (when also sending in a PC message for channel change).

 

[deke99]

@KraftyBob, I have used my HX Effects to change channels on a relay based TRS amp. There was no latency at all on the switching, but I did have to build a custom relay box to make it work. The amp switching was based on the Marshall Jubilee style switching where LED current flows through the lines. This didn't agree with the HX Effects, there are threads on other forums about this issue if you'd care to read up on it. Once I built the box it worked great but it was mildly annoying that I needed another 'box' on my board that required a 9V supply.

 

[TheCrunge]

Being that you're using Snapshots is the channel switching to be pretty instant? I'm getting the Helix LT tomorrow and plan to first try using the Ext Amp control with a TRS cable. I have a DSL40C (not CR so no MIDI) which has a 2 Button footswitch to change the channel and turn reverb on/off. The foot switch uses a TRS cable so I'm trying test if the Ext Amp Control can be programmed to change both the channel and the reverb with the TRS cable too (separate foot switches).

I currently use the M13 and connect the MIDI out from that to a VooDoo Lab Control switcher. That converts the signal to a relay and from there I can change the channel and control reverb on my DSL when in Latch mode. The problem is there's a slight delay when changing channels - enough of a delay to throw off my timing mid-song. I've confirmed the problem is with the M13 and not the Control Switcher or amp.

If the TRS setup doesn't work for both channel and reverb with the Ext Amp control, I thought about trying the same setup (MIDI ---> Control Switcher ---> amp) with the Helix - which is why I was asking about any delay with the LT.

Yes I would say that switching amp channels with MIDI commands using snapshots is pretty instant. I never used the DSL foot switch so I can't compare the 2.

 

[chito]

Bumpin this old thread.. I have a DSL 100 HR that I’m setting with HX Effects.
Hope Crunch or anyone here can help me on where to setup or put these numbers. Thanks in advance.

 

[scozz]

Bumpin this old thread.. I have a DSL 100 HR that I’m setting with HX Effects.
Hope Crunch or anyone here can help me on where to setup or put these numbers. Thanks in advance.

I think you’ll get more, and better, responses if you start a your own thread.

 

[TheKman76]

I struggled with MIDI switching on the Mk II and eventually gave up on master volume switching altogether. I'm sure there is some actual logic to this function, but I'll be buggered if I can work out what it is.

What is it you're trying to do?

 

[What?]

Just driving by. What is the specific problem with the MIDI on these amps? Are they not responding to the correct Control Change messages? Have alternative CC numbers been tried?

 

[chito]

Here are the commands I use

Classic Gain
Green=0
Red=9

Ultra Gain
Green=6
Red=3

Just driving by. What is the specific problem with the MIDI on these amps? Are they not responding to the correct Control Change messages? Have alternative CC numbers been tried?

Thanks for looking.
I already set my HX Effects to control the channels of DSL 100HR and it is working well.
I’m just confised on where to put the numbers that TheCrunge mentioned as the commands he used.

 

[TheKman76]

What is the specific problem with the MIDI on these amps?

I can't speak for everyone, but I couldn't figure out what CC#14 was actually doing. Channels (PC#1-4) and FX loop switching (CC#13) were all straight forward, but MV switching I just couldn't get a reliable result. The feature is not well documented and I lost interest in beating my head against it. I simply ignore the second MV.

 

[Sir Don]

I can't speak for everyone, but I couldn't figure out what CC#14 was actually doing. Channels (PC#1-4) and FX loop switching (CC#13) were all straight forward, but MV switching I just couldn't get a reliable result. The feature is not well documented and I lost interest in beating my head against it. I simply ignore the second MV.

I'm pretty much the same using my GT1000 with it, just can't figure out the process to change either MV's or the loop on/off.

 

[TheKman76]

I'm pretty much the same using my GT1000 with it, just can't figure out the process to change either MV's or the loop on/off.

I've got the loop switching working fine with the GT-1000. Are you using the patch MIDI or setting up a special footswitch?

 

[What?]

I can't speak for everyone, but I couldn't figure out what CC#14 was actually doing. Channels (PC#1-4) and FX loop switching (CC#13) were all straight forward, but MV switching I just couldn't get a reliable result. The feature is not well documented and I lost interest in beating my head against it. I simply ignore the second MV.

The manual looks pretty piss poor, really. It seems that sending a value of 0 for CC#14 switches to one of the master volumes, and sending a value of 1 for CC#14 switches to the other master volume. And it looks like sending any value between 2-127 for CC#14 will toggle whatever the current active master volume is to the other master volume. But a value between 2-127 may be a one-way deal. For example, if you send value 2 for CC#14, it might toggle which master volume is active, but sending value 2 again might not toggle it back, so you might need to send value 3, for example, to toggle back. You might also have to make sure that you are using the correct MIDI channel for each of those MIDI messages (on the amp and on the controller), which should be channel 1 by default.

 

[TheKman76]

My testing wasn't exhaustive, I eventually lost interest in working it out, but here's a summary of what I tested:

- Basic switching of MV using CC#14 0, 1, 2 & 3. Inconsistent.
- Enabling or disabling of automatic MV memory. I was thinking maybe the CC message was to either enable is disable the feature which provides that the amp remembers which MV was selected last for any given channel/mode. In effect the MV should not switch at all if turned off and remain on the last selected MV. Inconsistent.
- Enabling or disabling MV switching altogether. For example, in one state it might remember MV for each channel and in another it would select a consistent MV, say 1 for example. Inconsistent.
- Concurrent PC and CC messages. I tried using just the CC#14 alone, in conjunction with a PC message and in conjunction with a CC#13 and every combination. The thinking here was maybe the particular implementation could only handle certain message formats or structures. In each case the PC and CC#13 messages were predictable but the CC#14 was not.
- Finally, testing if a set of known conditions would get a predictable result. For instance use a consistent power-up step followed by a defined set of MIDI messages. The result of this was *utter* chaos. Five repetitions it would do nothing at all, then on the 6th and 7th it would toggle between MVs!?! I tried a few of these with different messages and found no pattern at all. WTF?

Mine also has a quirk which automatically selects the Ultra OD2 channel when in standby at power up. Switch to Classic... it switched back to OD2. Once it's out of standby the problem stops.

So what does work? I can switch manually and it will consistently remember the correct MV based on which was last selected for each channel. Even with PC and CC messages for channel and loop switching it will remember the correct MV, provided I don't send any CC#14 message.

In short, it's either flawed, or there's something critical I'm missing. I've read elsewhere that this is a working feature. I've also read that the 6-button footswitch has worked well on amps that don't seem to like the CC#14 messages. Either way it's not a feature I need as the GT-1000 can do all of this much more simply.

If someone out there knows what I'm missing I'd *really* like to know what it is.

 

[Sir Don]

I gave up. I just use the 6 button switch now.

Actually, since I got the 20 watt version (combo) I don't use the 40 much any more anyway. I really like what I'm getting out of the 20 watter.

 

[TheKman76]

OK, you guys inspired me to look at this again, now I can get a consistent result... just not a good result.

I've tested exclusively using the patch MIDI setting on the GT-1000. Each time you change patch it sends a series of MIDI commands which you assign to the patch. This works great with the channel and FX loop. Just now I set an assign to toggle CC#14 between 0 and 1 on a button press inside the patch.

If the MV is in the green state, it will ignore the first press of the button and switch to red on the second press. This makes sense if the state I ask for first already matches the current state. So, if the first command from the GT is for '0' and it's already green, then nothing happens. When I send a '1' it switches to red, thereafter it will toggle between them fine. OK, that all seems fine.
Here's where it gets weird.

If the MV is in the red state, it will ignore the first two button presses, then it will switch on the third press!?!?

This seems to indicate that the DSL ignoring *every* first command to change MV. I'm gonna' keep playing 'cause this @&$% makes no sense.

 

[TheKman76]

I gets weirder. If I manage to send a CC#14 '1' using the assign button within about 200ms of changing patches it will change MV immediately.

It's been said before, but I have adolescent offspring who make more sense than this.

 

[What?]

If I manage to send a CC#14 '1' using the assign button within about 200ms of changing patches it will change MV immediately.

How are you able to determine that the message is sent within 200ms?

 

[TheKman76]

The assign I created to send the messages is connected to "CURNUM" or "Current Number" in the GT, which means it's the same button I use to select the patch. In this particular bank I tested using patch 3, which means I have to press the 3 to select the patch and press 3 again to send the additional CC. I judge this to be about 100ms at the fastest I can select it twice and anything over about 200ms it ignores the CC message.

I also found that if you try to change MV multiple times with a gap of less than about 200ms it ignores the message. For example, if you press the button at about 120bpm like a tap tempo, it will switch MV in time with you. If you tap it at 300bpm it completely ignores the messages... all of them! I tested this with the effects loop switching and it didn't seem to matter when or how fast I tapped, it changed every single time.

Thinking back to when I first got it, I remember also having trouble with the first press of the button on the from panel too.