Jcm 2000 is one great amp! :)

[dreyn77]

I was using this great amp and trying out some new setting technique and was hearing if the amp can do, a small version of a classic tone.
so the experiment was to make sure the DSL could actually make the high gain sound, which started it all. the Randy Rhoads tone from the LIVE ep recording.

then I ended up demoing other pickup guitars to see how they were handled by the DSL amp. I gotta say I was aiming to MAX OUT the amp's gain on both lead 1 & 2. that was the deal here with this full working max tone in a small way experiment.

So the sound had to achieve the distortion growl of the original and other tones like brightness of note and fuzzy multiple notes in the distortion and singing harmonics etc...

I was able to get all that and the volume setting I wanted to hear the sound at.
I also wanted to rule over the presence control as well. which is something I've rarely done in the past.
Ideally the presence control setting should have been no more than '3', in theory.

I was also limiting myself to the most original pickup, guitar i could find.
so I used the fender 68 reissue. a 50's pickup version would have been fine too.

my settings ended up being,
Deep switch, 'No'
pres, 2
treble, 2
mids, 1.8
bass, 0
tone shift, In
reverb, 5.8
ultra 2, vol, 0.5
gain, 10


It worked as per the sound from the record.

the lead 2 sound had 60cycle hum, was very traditional sounding, and held all that gain sound no worries. (no MXR or anything else)
the clean channel had no 60 cycle hum. cause the gain is way down on this channel.

so then I tried the clapton noiseless pickup guitar. it seemed to make louder sound and boomier, so it's overall a bigger coil sound version.
it has the sound of the vintage high sensitive type pickups. but on the lead 1 & 2 channels it gets a sound which seems to be progressively harder to take, listening too.
no hum at all on any channel with these pickups.

then I used seymour duncan's super distortions. these pickups fight the internals of this amp and I recon are almost a 1 sound deal in this setup. so, in reality, they're useless in this amp.

I tried the texas special pickups too. they too seem to loose what they do in this custom amp. but they are kinda 'generic' so you can use them to get their 'more tone' sound, but the amp fights the tone control adjustments.

Then I used the Jeff beck hot noiseless pickups. this amp came to life. they are it seems, trick pickups for this amp. everything works like tone control, dual pickup traditional tone, etc.. but in a strange way.
the tone roll off isn't happening in the same way as the vintage pickup does.
these roll off tone and lots of it, but the sound stays hot. the vintage pickups really dull off the tone using the same technique.

Every channel on the amp with every possible adjustment made, these pickups still make great sound in all areas.
it's not the other pickups sound but it seems very traditional and it makes a great version of the high gain sounds, ala randy rhoads.

these pickups in that amp are a serious combination.
BUT there was something which took a while to figure out about why the sound was still very different.
then it dawned on me! jeff's been playing constantly since forever, so he's used all the techniques from all eras.
these pickups contain a hidden technique for tone adjustment.
So there's a unrevealed tone adjustment technique which the player must know in order to get ALL the tones out of these pickups.

they are NOT standard, nor are they 'general purpose'. these pickups are tricked up serious seasoned PRO pickups.
I didn't believe it at first but now I do!
I'm impressed! well done fender and Jeff for making these things!

they are a product of the millionares playground. and way too suffisticated for the average player.

just for giggles I plugged in the gibson 490's and dimarzio FRED and they actually made lead 1 scream! brilliant for that. not too good for all possible sound adjustments.

so I recon all those 'tricked up' pickups of the 70's & 80's will all sound great in Lead 1 section. it's not ideal but they work there.

yeah the DSL did as it was supposed to do according to theory. all the sections do as suppose to. the amp is working perfectly according to design.


so, inconclusion, the amp is tricked up, so by using tricked up pickups, you're adding to complications, which more often than not result in limited things you can do with settings.

the 2 pickups which standout are the vintage 68 pickups (so that's any vintage pickup in reality) and the jeff beck noiseless pickups. which actually make this whole thing work like a charm. they named it 'hot' cause it's the best they have for the HOT HIGH gain sound. it's brilliant at the clean sound but it's a dull sound incomparison to the 68/vintage. which is no good at the high gain sound.

thanks guys!

Ps, I thought jeff would have a trick up his sleave and he has most definitely proven to have 1, and I thought it would be an easy to use trick too, which it is. Bravo Jeff!

 

[Adrian R]

dude...man do you have time on your hands! You've got to be rich...

 

[Deep Purple fan]

dude...man do you have time on your hands! You've got to be rich...

He loves his Marshall......I didn't read the entire post but I agree with his headline. I really like the JCM2000 DSL 100. i played a really special one about a year ago while spending time in the shop's demo room. It was one of those amps that just was amazing. Guitar Center wanted $750 which I thought was too high so I walked. Went back the next day to get it and it was gone.

 

[Adrian R]

He loves his Marshall......I didn't read the entire post but I agree with his headline. I really like the JCM2000 DSL 100. i played a really special one about a year ago while spending time in the shop's demo room. It was one of those amps that just was amazing. Guitar Center wanted $750 which I thought was too high so I walked. Went back the next day to get it and it was gone.

You should hear what they sound like with a choke and new trannies...the stock ones imo are poorly built... The amp becomes MUCH more JMP like...but with more gain, two channels, reverb and a good FX loop...

I wouldn't trade my DSLs for any amp....(leaving money making desires aside)

 

[dreyn77]

I just don't do TV. I only do the marshall forum. so I've got plenty of time to play guitar.

 

[Australian]

I was using this great amp and trying out some new setting technique and was hearing if the amp can do, a small version of a classic tone.
so the experiment was to make sure the DSL could actually make the high gain sound, which started it all. the Randy Rhoads tone from the LIVE ep recording.

then I ended up demoing other pickup guitars to see how they were handled by the DSL amp. I gotta say I was aiming to MAX OUT the amp's gain on both lead 1 & 2. that was the deal here with this full working max tone in a small way experiment.

So the sound had to achieve the distortion growl of the original and other tones like brightness of note and fuzzy multiple notes in the distortion and singing harmonics etc...

I was able to get all that and the volume setting I wanted to hear the sound at.
I also wanted to rule over the presence control as well. which is something I've rarely done in the past.
Ideally the presence control setting should have been no more than '3', in theory.

I was also limiting myself to the most original pickup, guitar i could find.
so I used the fender 68 reissue. a 50's pickup version would have been fine too.

my settings ended up being,
Deep switch, 'No'
pres, 2
treble, 2
mids, 1.8
bass, 0
tone shift, In
reverb, 5.8
ultra 2, vol, 0.5
gain, 10


It worked as per the sound from the record.

the lead 2 sound had 60cycle hum, was very traditional sounding, and held all that gain sound no worries. (no MXR or anything else)
the clean channel had no 60 cycle hum. cause the gain is way down on this channel.

so then I tried the clapton noiseless pickup guitar. it seemed to make louder sound and boomier, so it's overall a bigger coil sound version.
it has the sound of the vintage high sensitive type pickups. but on the lead 1 & 2 channels it gets a sound which seems to be progressively harder to take, listening too.
no hum at all on any channel with these pickups.

then I used seymour duncan's super distortions. these pickups fight the internals of this amp and I recon are almost a 1 sound deal in this setup. so, in reality, they're useless in this amp.

I tried the texas special pickups too. they too seem to loose what they do in this custom amp. but they are kinda 'generic' so you can use them to get their 'more tone' sound, but the amp fights the tone control adjustments.

Then I used the Jeff beck hot noiseless pickups. this amp came to life. they are it seems, trick pickups for this amp. everything works like tone control, dual pickup traditional tone, etc.. but in a strange way.
the tone roll off isn't happening in the same way as the vintage pickup does.
these roll off tone and lots of it, but the sound stays hot. the vintage pickups really dull off the tone using the same technique.

Every channel on the amp with every possible adjustment made, these pickups still make great sound in all areas.
it's not the other pickups sound but it seems very traditional and it makes a great version of the high gain sounds, ala randy rhoads.

these pickups in that amp are a serious combination.
BUT there was something which took a while to figure out about why the sound was still very different.
then it dawned on me! jeff's been playing constantly since forever, so he's used all the techniques from all eras.
these pickups contain a hidden technique for tone adjustment.
So there's a unrevealed tone adjustment technique which the player must know in order to get ALL the tones out of these pickups.

they are NOT standard, nor are they 'general purpose'. these pickups are tricked up serious seasoned PRO pickups.
I didn't believe it at first but now I do!
I'm impressed! well done fender and Jeff for making these things!

they are a product of the millionares playground. and way too suffisticated for the average player.

just for giggles I plugged in the gibson 490's and dimarzio FRED and they actually made lead 1 scream! brilliant for that. not too good for all possible sound adjustments.

so I recon all those 'tricked up' pickups of the 70's & 80's will all sound great in Lead 1 section. it's not ideal but they work there.

yeah the DSL did as it was supposed to do according to theory. all the sections do as suppose to. the amp is working perfectly according to design.


so, inconclusion, the amp is tricked up, so by using tricked up pickups, you're adding to complications, which more often than not result in limited things you can do with settings.

the 2 pickups which standout are the vintage 68 pickups (so that's any vintage pickup in reality) and the jeff beck noiseless pickups. which actually make this whole thing work like a charm. they named it 'hot' cause it's the best they have for the HOT HIGH gain sound. it's brilliant at the clean sound but it's a dull sound incomparison to the 68/vintage. which is no good at the high gain sound.

thanks guys!

Ps, I thought jeff would have a trick up his sleave and he has most definitely proven to have 1, and I thought it would be an easy to use trick too, which it is. Bravo Jeff!

When are you going to invite me over to Kemper Profile this Holy Grail DSL of yours?

 

[dreyn77]

Those noiseless pickups really do have no noise. it's an inpressive sound. no doubt.

HOT high gain sound with no noise. I can't believe it myself.
I'm, by now, so use to hearing the chip fryer, it's unreal hearing the noiseless version.

AND maxed out gain on a DSL. ?
that's unbelieveable!
I'm so use to these things being on gain setting 6 or 4. but 10 is unbelieveable!

 

[Deep Purple fan]

You should hear what they sound like with a choke and new trannies...the stock ones imo are poorly built... The amp becomes MUCH more JMP like...but with more gain, two channels, reverb and a good FX loop...

I wouldn't trade my DSLs for any amp....(leaving money making desires aside)

The one I was talking about might have been modded. It was a special one. Still think of it.

 

[dreyn77]

most of the time, I've been cookin these things with the wrong pickups, man.

noiseless with the sound of reverb, is a big winner sound too.

 

[dreyn77]

You guys, australian are WAY ahead of me with things like Kempler profiles.
I just think of my DSL as being stock and nothing out of the ordinary. infact I tookout my 'custom valve' setup and putback the stock preamp valve values.

the only thing different about the powervalves is they're out of those custom valve TV amps in the asian repair shops.

I personally don't rate them as anything unique. the TV repair guys recon they're awesome. they're much heavier than the marshall branded EL34's. they kept breaking on my amps.

 

[dreyn77]

Jeff becks tone control offers the user a main sound and a solo version.
so you'll need to ride the guitars tone control with that setup.
so it's a technique which the 900 amp used. but it's built into the jeff beck pickups. fender knows what they're doing. and giving to jeff.

 

[Bigmuff]

The amp has more gain than you need, but it's nice to know it's there. Dreyn, I've said this before, but please give it a shot with the master up. Tell your neighbors it was an "accident". Then you'll hear what it really sounds like. My DSL on 0.5 doesn't sound too different from a pedal run into a SS amp.

 

[dreyn77]

yes big muff, you are correct! I agree!
but the whole point of this theoretical test was to NOT turn the amp up, cause I know all their amps are suppose to hold the sound even at such tiny settings.

the DSL does what the JMP does at small settings.

I had the 5010 amp playing exactly the strings sound at such a quiet setting, that I couldn't hear the amped version over the accoustic string vibration sound.

the amped up sound was exactly the same as the accoustic string sound in that test with the 5010 amp.

that SS type of sound with the amp at low vol setting IS exactly the right amp sound for my location. which was right next to the speakers.

this is where guys get lost in their ideas about 'what's a great sound'.
I'm not after what's a listenable great sound, NO! I'm after the sound where all the concepts of the amp components, actually make the sound they claim to make.
the concept of presence control, the concept of bass control, etc...
AND including the 'ideal' sound which the pickup model is suppose to make. (this part you need to do your own research into that area, cause it's not clear to the customer who buys the pickups)

I've heard the sounds you want me to make many times before.
now I know, that sound is a sound which is designed for another room, which I ain't standing in.
those sounds are in theory, NO good to use in MY particular room, according to the fictional marshall amp player theory.

I'd have to stand and hear the sound, you suggested, from a location 10, 20, 30, etc... feet away.
that's no good to hear at my location cause the cable won't stretch that far.

so, according to you, there's no limits on volume level, but according to MARSHALL's control selection, there IS a limit to volume and presence and bass controls, etc...

SO, you're talkin about BIG MUFF's VanHalen inspired method of adjusting marshall amps, BUT the problem there is, that VH method of adjusting amps, wasn't used by marshall with the models after the 1968 marshall. (vh method left the marshall amp line at the 1980 model, and another family tree was established)

SO, if you wanna KEEP on turning the amp up, as if there's NO LIMITS, then YOU and all who think like this method is the best, then you MUST BE using the EVH line of product, cause there IS NO BETTER product out there, that's THE AMP FOR YOU.
no doubt about it.

SO most of the guys in this forum should have bought and be playing THOSE amps and not still struggling with the marshall which NEVER changed in it's amp adjusting theory.

people were pointing out to eddie van halen than if he was gonna maxout the amp then he needed to move away from the marshall and create the EVH amp line.

zakk wylde got the same message.

The marshall was from a time before all this stuff from celebrities and MAX settings.

so you are suppose to NEVER maxout the adjustments. you can know that, cause there's a presence control on most of the amps.

that presence control has the ablity to OVER POWER the actual strings sound. it has the potential to make your sound into NASTY ear hurting sound.
which is BAD sound.

SO, inconclusion, the MARSHALL is the brother of the home stereo record amp from the 1960's. and must be adjusted in a similar way.
every single amp model they've made, is adjusted like the home stereo setup.

If you think there's No limits to GOOD SOUND, then the EVH amp and family tree of amps is the way for you.

If you place a pedal into a JVM then you're using, celebrity technique and NOT the marshall technique. that technique, left the marshall amps back in 1970.

marshall took the celebrity idea but changed it and put that into their amps. into the old home stereo adjustment technique.

SO YOU turnup your EVH! not the marshall way.

 

[dreyn77]

the amp DOESN'T have more gain than you need.

this shows me that you haven't heard the original sound from the amp. you're playing a custom sound from the stock amp.

you seem to think marshall doesn't use a scope, so they never actually see the signal from the amp and never compare with earlier amps scope readout.

this idea of yours is WRONG!
once you play the pickup which the DSL is made for you hear the maxed out gain sound, and it's recognizeable as a sound from the past.

lead 1 is the sound of 1 pedal being included into the signal.
lead 2 is the sound of 2 pedals being included into the signal.
they effect the tone and the distortion number of notes. as pedals do.

so a click of the footswitch is just like adding 1 or 2 pedals into the front of the amp.

My single coil guitar exposed the multiple notes added by the amp channels.
the custom amps in the amp, exposed their construction and revealed the type of amps they actually are, and limited the types of pickups which the amp can handle. across the whole amp design.

it's like 'how many keys will open a lock' concept.
the pickup which is accepted by all areas of the amp, is the only pickup to use.
if the lock is a door lock, then the only outcome is to open the door, but the amp is different, there's many outcomes for sounds.

most pickups will open 1 sound from the amp.

the best pickup will open all sound possiblities with that amp.

for the DSL, that pickup is a vintage pickup. OR a custom built pickup from the pickup professionals. which is jeff beck's hot noiseless model.

I've only found 2 models (and varients of those designs) which unlock all the possible sound combinations in the JCM2000 AMP

Good luck to you and your theory of anything goes!

 

[dreyn77]

cause the amp is 'master volume', when the amp is MAXED in the gain department, the amp is representing some prior eras sound.

the 800 maxed gain dial represents the JMP amp maxed.

the DSL maxed gain represents the prior amp with pedal attached to the front.

so the idea is, it's NOT representing MORE THAN randy's gain level. it IS representing randy's gain level. (when the dial is maxed)

It's marshalls version of achieveing that effect with THEIR technique.

if you're getting a sound with EXTRA gain, then that's YOUR technique which happens to make the amp do MORE gain than was designed.

so the SWITCH is adding the pedals effect NOT the amps control sections.

so the marshall allows you to GO BACK to the amp EQ controls and use them AS YOU DID BEFORE pedals were invented.

the pedal effect is controlled by a switch, the EQ is seperate cause that's the marshall way. you're adjusting it the old way. it's a better way.

maybe this shows us that the TSL is marshalls version of giving the customer the EVH amp adjusting method.
who knows?!

 

[RiverRatt]

You guys, australian are WAY ahead of me with things like Kempler profiles.
I just think of my DSL as being stock and nothing out of the ordinary. infact I tookout my 'custom valve' setup and putback the stock preamp valve values.

the only thing different about the powervalves is they're out of those custom valve TV amps in the asian repair shops.

I personally don't rate them as anything unique. the TV repair guys recon they're awesome. they're much heavier than the marshall branded EL34's. they kept breaking on my amps.

I'd like to hear more about these valves out of custom TV valve amps in the Asian repair shops. Are you saying that the Chinese are working on TV's with 100-watt EL34 power amps? That would make for one hell of a super bowl party.

 

[Squidhunter]

cause the amp is 'master volume', when the amp is MAXED in the gain department, the amp is representing some prior eras sound.

the 800 maxed gain dial represents the JMP amp maxed.

the DSL maxed gain represents the prior amp with pedal attached to the front.

so the idea is, it's NOT representing MORE THAN randy's gain level. it IS representing randy's gain level. (when the dial is maxed)

It's marshalls version of achieveing that effect with THEIR technique.

if you're getting a sound with EXTRA gain, then that's YOUR technique which happens to make the amp do MORE gain than was designed.

so the SWITCH is adding the pedals effect NOT the amps control sections.

so the marshall allows you to GO BACK to the amp EQ controls and use them AS YOU DID BEFORE pedals were invented.

the pedal effect is controlled by a switch, the EQ is seperate cause that's the marshall way. you're adjusting it the old way. it's a better way.

maybe this shows us that the TSL is marshalls version of giving the customer the EVH amp adjusting method.
who knows?!

For me there is way too much gain on lead 2 no matter what pickups are used.
I wouldn't say Randy used that much gain, but then again I always thought his tone to me sounds like a cheap pedal plugged into a cheap amp!

 

[GibsonKramer]

I am SO close to buying a TSL (60 watt). They have one at my local GC. Want just under $600 for it.

As for Randy, I read an interview with him years back about his recording "tone." As I remember it, the recording studio had a small concrete room, like a storage closet, maybe bigger (its been 30 years). They put his Marshall in the middle of the room. Mic'd it there, and then like 4' - 5' outside the room/door. My memory could be off, lot of stuff between then and now.

But, that's my story (or his) and I'm sticking to it.

And I absolutely loved his tone. The lead on (Revelation) Mother Earth...

https://youtu.be/JImuJbc0hQA?t=4m35s

 

[Squidhunter]

I wouldn't argue about Randy's tone, he sounds great live. I just reckon the recordings were ****e. Blizzard tone I can't stand, Diary is a bit better.
The JCM2000 high gain tone sounds atrocious to me (my opinion)
Dreyn is talking about diming the gain on Lead 2, the thought of doing this is hard to comprehend!

 

[dreyn77]

well guys thanks for the input it's great reading.

I've just kept on playing the JCM 2000 and the fender 68 reissue and have been searching for tones based on theory and low & behold, I found the cream tone clapton used with his les paul.
and then with a flick of a switch I swapped the tone to the opposite 'low sensitive' version and got Mr Blackmore's Rainbow, LIVE on stage recorded tone.

I didn't even need to change any amp controls, just used the scoop switch feature.

my amp settings, just trying to make a small sound with the original tone for playing in room, but we all know that these great marshalls will hold the sound at any power level (almost)

rainbow sound.
deep 'NO',
pres, bass, mids, treble all set at 'ZERO'.
lead 1 & clean channel, gain 'max'
vol, anywhere you like, I had it on 0.5 just to prove a point and not disturb the next room in the place.
scoop switch in use (/ cream sound, not in use)

live stage show, so I used lots of reverb, channel B was '6' channel A 'maxed'.
every other tone was adjusted on the guitar's controls. (problem here with the 68 guitar not having a tone control on the bridge pickup, blackmore has this feature of tone control on his guitar)

when blackmore plays clean you use clean channel. when he plays dirty you use lead 1.

scoop switch replaces the need for custom pickups or those other inputs.

(oh, buy the way, if you plug in your 68 guitar into the low inputs on those vintage 4 input amps, the presence control doesn't seem to change the sound even though you've changed the knob setting.
so those pickups don't work in that section of the vintage amp)

the vintage pickup seems to be the best pickup for these amps.
but if you want high gain with noiseless sound, then fender hot noiseless is the model to buy.

so the vintage pickup unlocks all the possible sound adjustment combinations with this amp.

It's not my sound, it's MARSHALLS version of their own sound as used by guys like randy, blackmore, clapton etc...

so, marshalls choice of controls is ideal for achieveing their famed tones.
if you want your own custom tones then JVM 410 is the amp to go for.
the DSL still has massive room for tonal adjustment.
the bass control really does only effect that part of the fingerboard region.
mids effect mids etc...

nothing wrong with the JCM2000 DSL. It does all the old tones if you want it too.