JCM 800 2204 pair of inputs -- vertical vs. horizontal?

[SHREDNECK]

Hi Again -- a little background first.

I've had this brutal amp head since I bought her new in Philly, 1984.

I caught Iron Maiden Live for the first time the year before -- 'Piece Of Mind' tour at the Spectrum Arena in the south part of the city -- absolutely blew me away.

Was inspired by a local radio interview with Dave Murray around that time, discussing his Marshall '50 watt' rig vs. the '100 watt' because, in his own words "The 50 watt amp is easier to overdrive" than the 100 watt. So I looked into it further, and concluded that he was likely speaking of the JCM 800 2204, this is why I chose this tube head, ordering her through a well- known indie music store on South Broad St., not far from Base.

Mann, I love the JCM 800 full stack like crazy -- especially to this day, since coming across and buying the (2) 4x12 used A/B cabs after returning back home to Denver following my first military enlistment.

==============================================================

Returning to modern times: Seeing pix here on the forum of other JCM 800 2204s,
...I've noticed that the others have vertical inputs (low sensitivity / high sensitivity)
almost exclusively.

Now the strangeness: My particular 2204 has the input pairs laid out horizontally on the amp face, can't recall having ever seen others configured like this.
I have no idea why this is.

If someone can shed light on this, I'd really appreciate it.
Has always been a mystery to me.
=============================================================

Thanks in Advance --
-- Bruce Edward Gibson

 

[Gutch220]

yea, the horizontal ones came out in the later 80's while the vertical ones came out in the early 80's.

there are other differences in the early versus later models such as how the inputs, and knob components are attached to the board, and number of filter capacitors but this is probably beyond the scope of this thread, but there's a ton of information on this

 

[FleshOnGear]

Some people say the vertical input JCMs are better, but Slayer used horizontal input 2203s. I bet your rig sounds killer, man.

 

[67mike]

Some people say the vertical input JCMs are better, but Slayer used horizontal input 2203s. I bet your rig sounds killer, man.

They used a few distortion pedals upfront that would bury any sound differences imho

 

[DragonCrestPC]

There is a big difference between horizontal vs vertical input 800s IMO. Here's a video comparing them

 

[Troy T. Blues]

yea, the horizontal ones came out in the later 80's while the vertical ones came out in the early 80's.

there are other differences in the early versus later models such as how the inputs, and knob components are attached to the board, and number of filter capacitors but this is probably beyond the scope of this thread, but there's a ton of information on this

Yup. I think vertical up until 1984, then horizontal.

 

[SHREDNECK]

My thanks to those who have chimed in.
Really appreciate the video material.

I don't understand the heavier technical end of this but I recon I understand a good bit overall.

The guy playing the two guitars through the 2204 has absolutely impressed me. The tones and harmonics are very commanding, and are nothing short of excellence IMO. The tight playing techniques this guy has mastered demonstrate awesome musicianship on a high level.

I would wish to know about his choices regarding effects going in, and the setup and speakers he's running out the other end.

Thanks again!

-- Bruce

 

[fitz]

I would wish to know about his choices regarding effects going in, and the setup and speakers he's running out the other end.

Ask him, he's the Headfirst amp dude.

Headfirst Amplification

headfirstamplification.com

Jason is also an MF member. (@burger)

 

[gbravo]

The 80's 50W 2204 are all the same (except for changing the inputs from vertical to horizontal). The filtering in the 100W 2203s were changed starting in 1985 which resulted in a change of tone. That's why older 2203s are more valuable - they sound better.

Legendary Tones - The Marshall Shopper's Guide Part 2

In the second installment of our Marshall Shopper's Guide, we walk through the "Metal Panel" era of Marshalls, ending at the JCM 2000.

legendarytones.com

 

[Mitchell Pearrow]

I really have nothing to add here but
@SHREDNECK
enjoy your amp brother, I know that full stack can rock like a machine..

Cheers
Mitch

 

[V-man]

Due to the model-to-model inconsistency in the JMP (especially) and JCM era, you could conceivably have a guide curate you through a dozen 2203s or 2204s ranging from the late 1970s to the late 1980s and all things being equal, should have preferred picks and dogs from each period.

That said, cold start with one amp sight unseen, the JMP/JCM to mid-‘84 (VIs) will be worth more and might have a blind edge. The boards were chassis-mounted, which is and looks better. they also had different filtration that is more open and less harsh. Kerry King’s actual “Beast“ was a 1987 HI, and you know he had JCM after JCM to choose from. I prefer the JMP, because it’s the fucking coolest of them all and the better ones generally are more apreciated (value and sound wise) over the better JCMs, particularly HIs.

 

[EADGBE]

I think they're both good.

 

[Delicieuxz]

There is a big difference between horizontal vs vertical input 800s IMO. Here's a video comparing them

Does the tonal difference between VI and HI in that video also apply to the 2203 models?

 

[DragonCrestPC]

Does the tonal difference between VI and HI in that video also apply to the 2203 models?

In my experience yes.

 

[Delicieuxz]

The 80's 50W 2204 are all the same (except for changing the inputs from vertical to horizontal). The filtering in the 100W 2203s were changed starting in 1985 which resulted in a change of tone. That's why older 2203s are more valuable - they sound better.

Legendary Tones - The Marshall Shopper's Guide Part 2

In the second installment of our Marshall Shopper's Guide, we walk through the "Metal Panel" era of Marshalls, ending at the JCM 2000.

legendarytones.com

The filtering first changed in mid-1984, with the switch from vertical inputs to horizontal inputs, which coincided with the filtering cans being reduced from 6 to 5. Then, sometimes in 1985, they were reduced from 5 to 3. BTW, I've seen numerous places claim the 5-can horizontal input model is a transition period that has the same filtering as the previous vertical input model. But the vertical input model has 6 filter cans, not 5 like the first horizontal-input 2203 model.

Or, do you mean that the filtering changed in some way that wasn't just a reduction in the number of filtering cans?


It sounds like the article you linked to just got the year of the switch wrong, by one year. What it describes here actually happened part-way through 1984:

"However, during circa 1985, the design of the 100 watt JCM 800 series changed in order to cut costs. The age of the vertical input style of inputs as used on 2203s and 2204s for years had ended. A new horizontal input configuration began and this in itself only meant that the potentiometers and input jacks were now mounted directly to the printed circuit boards rather than being wired up with flying lead wires."


That isn't the only article I've seen that got the date of the switch wrong. This Sweetwater history recap of the JCM 800, written by a Marshall expert who worked at Marshall for over 2 decades, also mistakenly dates the switch from vertical to horizontal input to 1985 instead of 1984:

The History of the Legendary Marshall JCM800 2203 - inSync

The legendary Marshall JCM800 2203 amplifier is the champion of hard rock/heavy metal. Read how the “Father of Loud,” Jim Marshall, created this masterpiece.

www.sweetwater.com

If you have an original ’80s JCM800 2203, if it has its two front-panel inputs aligned vertically, you’ll instantly know that it doesn’t have this change. This is because the inputs weren’t changed to being horizontal until 1985.

If, however, your 2203 does have horizontal inputs, then you’ll have to take a look at the serial number in order to find out its year of manufacture. Said year is designated by the very last letter before the numbers start. Here’s the skinny:

• T = 1985 (“old way”)
• U = 1986 (maybe “old,” maybe “new” — sorry)
• V = 1987 (“new way”)
• W = 1988 (“new way”)
• X = 1989 (“new way”)
• Y = 1990 (“new way”)

The first horizontal inputs serials start with S, referring to their 1984 production date.

Me and a couple of friends are big Smashing Pumpkins fans, and Billy Corgan's horizontal input 2203 that he played almost all of Gish and Siamese Dream through, and which he used a lot on MCIS as well, is a 1984. And my friends own a few 1984 horizontal input 2203s - one of their inspection stickers is dated 4/10/84. I just got a 1985, dated 9/1/85 (January 9, 1985), and it has 5 cans and is identical to the 1984, horizontal input, 5-can version. And it has the sound that we like about those SP recordings - but the 1982 2203 I had and just sold didn't quite do it. It was more airy, fizzy, and the video posted by DragonCrestPC probably depicts what the difference was between that amp and the horizontal input one I now have.



To him, as it seems it would to most people, the conversion from the horizontal input spec to the vertical input spec made the amp "sweeter". But if someone was after the tones of early SP, as I and my friends have been, I guess the opposite would be true, lol.

 

[Deftone]

Interesting stuff!

FWIW: I have an '85 (T04392 s/n) 2204. Obviously HI



Also, IIRC Jeff Hanneman (Slayer) used an '86 2203

 

[wakjob]

For 2204 posterity...

The main difference is that the potentiometers are PCB mounted on the 'Horizonal' inputs, but many say the transformers also changed around that era. In the late 70's the 2203's got Dagnall transformers, and the 2204's usually had Drake. Something happened to the Drake's in the mid 80's and didn't have the same effect on tone & feel of the previous generations.

Voltages everywhere in the 2204 increased post '83-'84 causing the amps to sound more strident and with more clarity. Whereas the predecessors had lower B+ and Plate voltages making those amps to have more perceived gain and feel a little looser.

Plus a few other little things changed like no more mixed bag of molded film/foil capacitors in the signal path. Pretty much all stacked metal film WIMA box capacitors from '85-'86 going forward.

 

[Deftone]

So....would a late ('79, '80) JMP 2204 and an early ('81, '82) JCM800 2204 sound the same?

 

[Leonard Neemoil]

many say the transformers also changed around that era. In the late 70's the 2203's got Dagnall transformers, and the 2204's usually had Drake.

 

[machinated]

bit of a necrobump but thought I’d chime in with this. Just got my horizontal input 1989 JCM800 back from being serviced by Marshall.

Here it is compared to my 1977 JMP 2203 and 1979 JMP 2204. I dialled them to sound similar rather than setting the knobs the same as tolerances and tapers can vary quite a bit. Tonal difference was less than I was expecting actually, although the 1989 2204 is a bit stiffer/less squishy than the 1979.